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Author Topic: Wrong foundation - what will be my problems?  (Read 2900 times)
tillie
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« on: May 11, 2006, 10:56:16 PM »

Oh, dear, I bought the wrong foundation for the frames that I bought for my honey supers.  I have to put them on the hives tomorrow since the bees are bursting at the seams of the middle super.

I bought shallow extracting supers with 5 3/8" wedge top bar frames.  I bought 4 3/8" thin surplus foundation when I guess I should have bought some other kind of foundation that was 4 3/4.  

So I built the frames and hammered the surplus in with the wedge so it is hanging from the top bar of the frame.

When I put these frames in the super on the hive in the morning, what problems will occur?

I only have two hives and plan to use Michael Bush's crush and strain method if I get any honey at all this year.

This has already been such a helpful group for my other questions.  Thank you in advance,


Linda T in Atlanta cry
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2006, 07:41:17 AM »

You'll be fine.  They may fill the space with non uniform size cells,  but shouldn't be an issue since your going to crush and strain anyway.

Just consider it an extremely large starter strip.
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tillie
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2006, 07:46:47 AM »

I'm going to start a list of my many newbee beekeeper goof-ups - it's getting longer by the minute.....

Thanks for the reassurance - I was hoping that I wouldn't have too much of a problem.  Math has never been my strong suit or I guess I would have realized that the foundation would be too small for what I was ordering.

When does one use 4 3/8 foundation?  Are there frames that are the right size for it?  Have I now sacrificed these larger frames after one year's use since I nailed the foundation in with the wedge?  

Thanks,

Linda T in Atlanta
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2006, 08:49:21 AM »

When does one use 4 3/8 foundation?  Are there frames that are the right size for it?
It is used for 5-3/8" frames with solid bottom bar, I assume you have split bottom bars?

Have I now sacrificed these larger frames after one year's use since I nailed the foundation in with the wedge?
Nope, just use your hive tool and pop the wedge out,  reinstall new foundation and re-nail.


I guess it was too early in the morning to do the math before my previous post,  I thought you had a bigger gap than you do.  You'll be fine, just make sure the foundation stays in the middle of the frame otherwise they could draw a mess (did you use pins?). Use it up and next time get 4-7/8" if you have split bottom bars.
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tillie
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2006, 08:57:38 AM »

What are pins?  I don't have any specific bee pins, but I am a quilter and have T-pins that quilters use - I could push some of those into the split bottom of each frame to keep it in the middle.

Linda T
 huh
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2006, 10:49:34 AM »

tillie
Pins are  actually metal rivets that some genius decided could be used to hold the foundation in place instead of using wire.  Don't bend the ears of the rivets back and it works like a charm.  It also reduces melt through that can occur with an electric embedder and is simplier than using a spur embedder that still requires the wire.  I use it when I'm in a hurry as I prefer to spend my winters building boxes and stringing frames.
When I use pins I put my frames together by putting the pins into the end peices before nailing the frame together.  Make sure the slits in the rivets (excuse me pins) are all alligned the same way, up and down the frame.  I slip the foundation in, nail the wedge, make sure the pins are properly holding the foundation, and then attach the bottom bar.
Want to save money?  Try buying only medium brood foundation and then cutting into halves or thirds (depending on the frame depth) when using medium and shallow supers.  It gives the bees a starter strip and they'll actually fill the frame with comb on their own.  I actually think they prefer it that way.  A buzzy bee is a happy bee, the more they work the happier they bee.
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2006, 11:17:36 AM »

Quote
I'm going to start a list of my many newbee beekeeper goof-ups - it's getting longer by the minute.....


If you want a bad noobie goof up...I bought SHALLOW grooved frames and DEEP WIRED foundation.  That definatly didn't work...
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tillie
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2006, 04:09:28 PM »

Here's what they look like:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6269/2875/640/DSC00732.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6269/2875/640/DSC00733.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6269/2875/640/DSC00737.jpg

I thought I posted this earlier, but failed to hit submit (not going to count that as one of my newbee mistakes!)

Well, I guess the bees will have fun with their extra comb building free for all space!

Linda T  embarassed
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2006, 05:58:01 PM »

You just need to make sure the foundation is hanging in the center of the frame.  If not, the spacings between sheets will be off and worse case they will build comb outside the frame and attached to the adjacent frame.  At that point it will be like a domino effect and the whole super could get all out of whack.  If the foundation was the right length, it would slip between the bottom bars and be held in center.  With solid bottom bars,  pins would be pushed thru the holes in the side bars to keep it aligned.



Since it is only one super, I'm sure you can rig up something to hold it in the center with wire, hair pins, etc.
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tillie
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2006, 06:30:18 PM »

I can use the holes in the side pieces that are designed for wire to work something out - thanks, I didn't understand why it is so important for it to stay in the center of the frame and now I do -

Worst case scenario almost inevitably happens to me, so I'll work on stabilizing the foundation!

Thanks, Robo,

Linda T in Atlanta
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Summerbee
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2006, 08:22:00 PM »

If you wanna be lazy and not have wiring or pinning,  get artificial foundation, plasticel  cheesy  like me
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tillie
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2006, 08:27:33 PM »

Hi Summerbee,

I didn't buy the plasticel on purpose because I want to get whatever honey I may get without using an extractor.  I learned to extract at a workshop and thought it was fun but with only two hives and this being my first year, I thought I'd try Michael Bush's crush and strain method.

I see how he drills holes in one bucket and then filters, it looks like with cheesecloth, into another bucket - he doesn't describe the "crush" part but maybe I can figure that out!!!!!

Linda T in Atlanta Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2006, 04:52:50 PM »

I would do that too, but I have a friend who said she'd loan me her extractor so I figured might as well go ahead and get the lasting stuff.
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tillie
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« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2006, 09:51:46 AM »

Just as might be predicted the bees are filling in the 1/4" gap:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6269/2875/640/DSC00838.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6269/2875/640/DSC00839.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6269/2875/640/DSC00840.jpg

In only one frame had the wax come loose from the top.  The bees had joined that wax to the wax on the frame next to it rather than joining to the bottom of the frame - just like Robo predicted, I could have a real mess, but so far it's only happening on one frame - so I picked those two up as a unit to inspect them.

In my busier hive they haven't begun to use the super with the foundation problems, so we'll see what happens when they start.  They are my hive with the most burr comb, so that one probably WILL make a mess of the foundation problem!

Thanks for the help and encouragement.

Linda T in Atlanta wink
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