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Author Topic: NATIONAL ANTHEM - in Spanish (locked 4-9-06)  (Read 7763 times)
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« on: April 28, 2006, 10:45:29 PM »

I watch GW Bush today do his Rose Garden press conference - as usual, I sat through his smirky, nasty attitude and disagreed with probably 80% of what he said, then they asked about the National Anthem in Spanish and he replied "I think it is wrong to have it in Spanish" and "If people want to come to this country, they should learn English." and I finally got to agree with something he had to say.

It isn't the fact that they recorded it in Spanish, it is that they CHANGED THE WORDS TOO! - that is what gets me mad. I'll past the text here as soon as I get it (or someone else might beat me) but I'm not even sure if the music is the same - I haven't heard the whole song.

Yes, people SHOULD do their best to learn English - that does NOT mean to say you need to EVER FORGET your native language - but respect this country as an English Speaking Country and as a WANT TO BE CITIZEN make all attempts to becoming part of the MELTING POT, which will never happen if you have a language barrier.

Not learning English DOOMS new citizens to working in communities FRANKLY where low paying jobs are typically the standard. It limits their potential and gives citizens the feeling that the new kid on the block is NOT playing by the rules.

I'm not going to beat this topic to death - we had a long discussion on Immigration a while ago which really was a good series on thoughts. This though is insulting to me - I refuse to ever stand-up for a NONE ENGLISH VERSION, I will NOT be that politically correct. If Nascar or any other sport starts singing BOTH VERSIONS, I will not watch them or buy their products either.

ONE ANTHEM - ONE LANGUAGE (as a common language) Enjoy your culture, respect ours and become an American NOT by protesting in the streets and burning our flags, and now illegals living here have the nerve to start BOYCOTTING AMERICAN PRODUCTS - I swear I'm on Bizzarro Planet sometimes. The day I say our flag getting burned by protesting illegals in major American Cities - I was surprised that there wasn't an uprising of tax-paying, red blooded, patriotic Americans. I don't support violence, but that day I would have understood reasoning for rash decisions.

I believe that Bush is probably close to right with a work-based border pass program UNTIL something better and cost effective were found. I read in San diego County alone $400 million was spent LAST YEAR on Welfare programs for Illegals - one county in California, $400 million. You are telling me that FIRST CLASS TICKETS home would NOT be a more cost effective response.
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2006, 11:51:07 PM »

I'm so glad this is a free country and people can sing there favorite songs in spanish, greek, French. Latin, Italian, or what ever language they want to. Isn't it great their patriotism isn't lost just because they don't speek English too good.
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2006, 01:02:55 AM »

I don't know if THE NATIONAL ANTHEM is anyone's TOP 10 SONG LIST - I'm not sure your point Jerry, sure culture and songs are fine, but is painting repainting the flag in different colors and adding another star for illegal immigrants (even if hung as a second flag BELOW the national flag) a good idea - isn't it defacing something beyond words, music and cloth - did millions die for the rights of illegals to burn the US Flag in the streets of Cities as they claim they will boycott American products and stay as long as they wish?

I say cherish your heritage - but if you come here, you now have a new heritage to Cherish, not spit on and call it art, burn it and call it progress, don't change the words and music and call it the National Anthem - now Illegals choose WHICH SONG it the official songs???
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2006, 08:25:52 AM »

Many years ago a few guys got together and decided that their government was an oppresive government. There were so many rules, regulations, laws, and taxes that they felt smothered. So they fought to change that. They gave us this land of the free. I thought that was our heritage.

But instead there are those that would ad more laws, rules, and regulations to stop people from doing something they do not like. There were those that didn't like or appreciate or want those great men of the past to do what they were doing, they were nuts!!!! They were going to end up making life absolutely miserable for the colonials. But their plans worked out and people today are greatfull for it. At least I think they are. If not they should be. But then I have my doubts about it everytime I see someone wanting a new law to stop people from doing something they don't like, or doing it in a place they don't want them to.

I don't agree with people spitting upon the flag or burning it, but I will stand up and fight for their right to do it. Because that is freedom. I would hope they bought this flag or had it donated to the cause, other wise they are distroying someone elses property and that is violating that other individuals right to own that property.  

I don't speak spanish, don't care to, won't even try, but I allow my son to take spanish lessons. He wants to learn it. I don't help in that department. Funny thing is I have done business with those that couldn't speak english, and I couldn't speak spanish, and yet we comunicated and got the job done.

I can go around declairing that the song by the Who, "Won't Get Fooled Again", is the National Anthem. But I just don't believe that will quit get it there. I believe having something declaired the National Anthem takes the act of Congress or something.

I can make a replica of the flag out of pink, purple and orange, but that doesn't make it the flag of the USA.

I have just as much right to live the way I want to live as you have the right to live as you want to live. Funny thing is, My way does not suppress anyone's way, but your way tries to suppress the way of others. Enough laws and we have another oppressive government on our hands and the Declairation of Independance will have to be written all over again.
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2006, 09:34:59 PM »

I am amazed that english is the only language that the national anthem should be in.  So they changed the words. Hell I didn't know all the lyrics to American Pie until I was 15, I made them up in the meantime. Forget the fact that english isn't the only language our founding fathers spoke or that the constitution almost came out in german and that California's constitution came out in english and spanish.

If the immigrants don't learn english that is their choice. It may limit them but that is their choice. I am not going to get to worked up over someone not be able to speak english. When most Americans can barely speak it and won't even bother to learn common courtsey phrases when thy travel to Europe or other countries.

Not that english isn't regional or a language that has made many changes over the years. I just want to know what the hell the British speak.

I am going to go and play some Jimi Hendrix now because he does the best version of the Anthem there is. Maybe with Rosie O Donell at a baseball game on the TV.
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2006, 11:20:46 PM »

Understudy:

Please accept this a little tongue and cheek, but what kind of Freaky twisted Liberal thinking goes on in your head???  rolleyes  I can't remember when I have heard so many mentally challenged responses in 4 short paragraphs in years.

I have trouble understanding Liberal Thinking - usually because they come back with "I tend to lean to the Right on MOST issues" and I can only image what they think the RIGHT is. It surely must be some twisted Right though, something I have never experienced.

I really think people have the term FREEDOM all mucked up in their heads: assuming it means you have the right to do anything, anywhere and anytime as long as it doesn't effect others. I imagine you FULLY AGREE with the previous line. I tend to mind my own business, but JUST BECAUSE a neighbor runs a "QUIET METH-LAB" doesn't mean I wouldn't rat him out in a heart-beat.

But if someone walks down the street, urinating in public with no one around to see him, or stumbles homes totally intoxicated DOES NOT MEAN he isn't committing offences - the first is public indecency, urinating in public and exposure. The second is public intoxication - both will end you in jail. Is his RIGHTS being violated by being caught and arrested, I don't think so.

Should it be MANDATORY to Speak English to get citizenship - I don't believe so. Should it be EXPECTED as a gesture of citizenship, I do believe so. Creating POCKETS of languages is like shooting a map of the US with a paintball gun, it leaves blotches of isolated, border-less and limited people who aren't Americans, they are EMBASSIES on American soil, often with their own wars, poverty and depressions - don't we have ENOUGH of these already?

I hope some Jimmy Hendrix DNA is around and somehow makes it into what's left of Rosie's womb and pops out a Foreign speaking liberal (hopefully french/Iranian) for all your liberals to follow like a profit. You all move to some yippy colony, raise your liberal bees who cross pollinate (because to just pollinate is racist) and giant freak petunias form impenetrable fences so that you all can breed like cockroaches until the only thing left to eat is each other.

Now... that ridiculous babble I just spewed makes about as much sense as what you said to me. I can't believe that the Blue States think like you. Lucky for me, I'm in the ONLY REPUBLICAN STRONG-HOLD in my State - Ocean County, NJ.

The blue-states are like a crust around the REAL bread of the United States, nothing more than a shell, but sadly they also are gateways for immigrants who don't want to play by the rules, would rather take the easy road because it is too hard to meld in this country which they chose to migrate to. Hopefully, like birds they migrate back home and all this confusion of noncompliancy will eventually cycle out and common sense and decency will return to our wonderful home land.

I don't find Jerry's words any more believable - I'm not making enemies here, just keeping it real. But as you say, why not have endless versions of the National Anthem with different words, different music, different meanings - why not... Does being an American Citizen mean NOTHING any more to the Liberal minded - is having a few BILLION DOLLARS a year spent to feed, house and educate ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS NOT BOTHER YOU ONE BIT? Aren't there enough Americans who could use that money - doesn't it make sense that you can only spread that funding so far, so REAL Americans are getting deprived because flag burning, US hating Illegals and NON COMPLIANT legal ones are getting FIRST DIBS at these limited funds.

And by educate, that means of course to have schools where English is NOT even spoken BECAUSE the population of the community chooses NOT to speak English? These students graduate and can't find work because an employer can't read their diplomas because it's in some other language and the bearer can't communicate in English to tell the employer what the paper even is - ugh.

I just don't understand this retarded thinking. This is NOT FREEDOM, not for them and most importantly NOT for us. I honestly hope you are just winding me up - because I can't imagine unless you are really smoking some good bud and blowing a .20 breathalyzer that you believe the stuff you are saying.

I'm ending this topic after any replies. Between the PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO SMOKE IN PUBLIC BUILDING B.S. and this, it is just getting foolish now. Sorry if I sound a bit rude in this reply, but if your beliefs reflect the majority of Americans, then this country is doomed - it will split into a hundred little countries and look more like Europe (no disrespect to Europe) where for LIGITIMATE REASONS people have different languages and cultures and they still manage today to have border-less travel, but you know when you leave one country and enter another.

I'd rather zigzag through what is left of America than to travel through the country YOU describe. We are doomed as United States when it starts getting divided up into the sub-countries of other countries.

Having Chinatowns, Little Italy's, etc. in major cities is NOT the same thing - they are marketing themes today where people still have the option to form communities of people of like culture, embrace capitalism, offer services to everyone - but at the end of the day, they relish the country and generally meld with the area around them and thus with the rest of the country.

Enough from me - have at it, then I'm deleting these posts.
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2006, 06:54:06 AM »

Quote from: beemaster

 But as you say, why not have endless versions of the National Anthem with different words, different music, different meanings - why not...


When did this country become the United states?
When were the words to the National Anthem written?
When was music put to those words?
When was it all adopted as the National Anthem?
Did it all happen at the same time?
What if I don't like the song? Do I have to except it just because someone tells me I have to?
Do I not have the right to change the National Anthem?

 "On Sept. 13, 1814, Francis Scott Key visited the British fleet in Chesapeake Bay to secure the release of Dr. William Beanes, who had been captured after the burning of Washington, DC. The release was secured, but Key was detained on ship overnight during the shelling of Fort McHenry, one of the forts defending Baltimore. In the morning, he was so delighted to see the American flag still flying over the fort that he began a poem to commemorate the occasion. First published under the title “Defense of Fort M'Henry,” the poem soon attained wide popularity as sung to the tune “To Anacreon in Heaven.” The origin of this tune is obscure, but it may have been written by John Stafford Smith, a British composer born in 1750. “The Star-Spangled Banner” was officially made the national anthem by Congress in 1931, although it already had been adopted as such by the army and the navy."

Speaking of the National Anthem being sung at ball games.... I sure have heard it butchered a few times when done for sporting events. Seems that quite a few people have their own version to the song .... at least the music part.... the key..... sometimes they say the words in such a way as to be hard to determine what they are saying. I have thought many times if that is the way they feel about it, why bother to get up there to sing it. Or what ever it is you want to call what they are doing........ has it been done to Rap yet? If so will you complain about that just as much..... or is it just because it was done in spanish.

The point here is it has been done differently many many times.

Francis Scott Key, 1814

    O say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
    What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
    Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
    O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
    And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
    Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
    O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    On the shore dimly seen thro' the mists of the deep,
    Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
    What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
    As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
    Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
    In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream:
    'Tis the star-spangled banner: O, long may it wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

    And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
    That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
    A home and a country should leave us no more?
    Their blood has wash'd out their foul footsteps' pollution.
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    O thus be it ever when free-men shall stand
    Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation;
    Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
    Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
    And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!”
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
     

Quote from: beemaster
Does being an American Citizen mean NOTHING any more to the Liberal minded - is having a few BILLION DOLLARS a year spent to feed, house and educate ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS NOT BOTHER YOU ONE BIT? Aren't there enough Americans who could use that money - doesn't it make sense that you can only spread that funding so far, so REAL Americans are getting deprived because flag burning, US hating Illegals and NON COMPLIANT legal ones are getting FIRST DIBS at these limited funds.


OH! I see. This is about the illegal aliens again..... Not the language a song is sung or the color of a made up flag.... or the freedom of expresion. Sorry I guess I didn't read carefully enough.
 
It bothers me to spend billions of dollars on all sorts of welfare programs. Doesn't anybody have family to help them out in hard times? The government makes it easy for teenage girls to get pregnant and have babies and us tax payers support the kid.

Then the liberals you talk about also spend billions on...... animals.... not people. Ever watch the animal planet channel? Ever see the animal cops going to get those poor mistreated animals, spend money on fixing them up, arresting the people that mistreated the animals and throw them in jail. You wouldn't believe the amount of time, money, and effort that is spent on animals. But I guess we would rather spend the money on that than on our fellow human beings.

Lyrics to 'Nuestro Himno' ('Our Anthem')

Amanece, lo veis?, a la luz de la aurora?

lo que tanto aclamamos la noche caer?

sus estrellas sus franjas

flotaban ayer

en el fiero combate

en señal de victoria,

fulgor de lucha, al paso de la libertada.

Por la noche decían:

"Se va defendiendo!"

Oh decid! Despliega aún

Voz a su hermosura estrellada,

sobre tierra de libres,

la bandera sagrada?

Sus estrellas, sus franjas,

la libertad, somos iguales.

Somos hermanos, en nuestro himno.

En el fiero combate en señal de victoria,

Fulgor de lucha, al paso de la libertada.

Mi gente sigue luchando.

Ya es tiempo de romper las cadenas.

Por la noche decían: "!Se va defendiendo!"

Oh decid! Despliega aún su hermosura estrellada

sobre tierra de libres,

la bandera sagrada?
__________________________________________________

IN ENGLISH

By the light of the dawn, do you see arising,

what we proudly hailed at twilight's last fall?

Its stars, its stripes

yesterday streamed

above fierce combat

a gleaming emblem of victory

and the struggle toward liberty.

Throughout the night, they proclaimed:

"We will defend it!"

Tell me! Does its starry beauty still wave

above the land of the free,

the sacred flag?

Its stars, its stripes,

liberty, we are the same.

We are brothers in our anthem.

In fierce combat, a gleaming emblem of victory

and the struggle toward liberty.

My people fight on.

The time has come to break the chains.

Throughout the night they proclaimed, "We will defend it!"

Tell me! Does its starry beauty still wave

above the land of the free,

the sacred flag?
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2006, 09:06:44 AM »

My dad always told me the crust was the best part of the bread.

Quote
Please accept this a little tongue and cheek, but what kind of Freaky twisted Liberal thinking goes on in your head??? Rolling Eyes


The same kind of crazy neo con thinking that goes on in there also. the problem isn't that I am liberal or conservative. It's that I am irish. Smiley
Tongue and check accepted Smiley

History lessons I grew up being told stories on a very famous slogan "Irish need not apply"

The Star Spangled Banner in spanish really doesn't bother me. Understand I am 60 miles from miami and I work there all the time. This is isn't little Italy or Chinatown. This little Haiti and little Havana and there is nothing little about them. The billboards are in Spanish, there are people that only speak spanish . Plus the local governements elec those of spanish heritage to their boards. Miami politics is just as bad as anywhere else.  

The Miami culture is just that a culture.  I have stayed in Chinatown in DC.  
I have had vietnemease neighbors live next door to me who didn't eat my cat or dog.  I have heard cover songs to Pink Floyd done in Spanish. I have heard disco covers in Japanesse.

The Star Spangled Banner is the national anthem but it is also still just a song. If the people coming to this country want to learn english great but don't make it mandatory.  Also the biggest issue with what Bush said is that the two things don't go together. Bush said he doesn't think the national anthem should be in Spanish. I think that statement is wrong. He should have said that it should be in as many languages as possible. To reach as many people as possible. That in my opinion is an American thing and American way of doing things. He then said that people coming to this country should learn english. Well I could fire off enough comments about his screw ups at speeches and other times he has opened his mouth and make sentence structure mistakes and bad grammer that it would make his comment ironic in a way.  While I think learning english will help those who come here, it is a free country, a county free enough to let people make bad decisions or good one's.

So while Bush may not like the song in Spanish and he may not like people coming to this country and not learning english, they are two different issues. He just makes himself sound like an idiot again.

If you do decide to banish these posts to /dev/null space . I will understand. The nonsensical ravings of a lunatic may not be benefical to the public, but I will start back on my meds when the voices in my head tell me to do so and not before. afro


Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2006, 10:42:10 AM »

I read it all, didn't just delete it - and NO Jerry, my paragraph structure may have been poorly placed, but I was talking two different issues and Illegals just popped into my head as an example of wasted dollars when I was thinking wasted time listening to multi-versions of the Anthem.

So we'll have it your way (well... you  and Understudy) we'll release an album of a multitude of versions of the recording, let's say 100 different languages - I'm sure that is still obtainable.

I'm not sure what I think Brendhan of using the National Anthem as a marketing tool - let's rip it apart, reword it any old way that sells and send it thru a particle excelerator and smack every Cuban and Mexican, Every Iranian and Iraqi, anyone willing to bite into a piece of the Big Apple.

Call me a bigot, but I think Cubans (although they have taken over Miami and further North) have done a pretty good job of filling a void and economically support the Nation - unlike our million (I keep hearing numbers from 11 to 100 million and I doubt the latter is close) Mexican amigos who don't want to play, they are not getting (to quote my Mom BALLZIE) and want things THEIR WAY not OUR WAY and not even THEIR WAY "QUIETLY" which might be the sensible thing to do.

We'll use the money from that album a few paragraphs back (all $12.00 proceeds) to pay for Illegal Immigration - I'm sure California could use the relief it will bring their economy. Then, we'll put up BORDERS to keep the Americans OUT of Little Cuba, Little Havana, because we wouldn't want to upset their way of life or cause turmoil in their "carried over" cultures. That's it, we'll build WALLS TO KEEP THE AMERICANS OUT!!!! That's the LIBERAL WAY - I've seen the LIGHT!

Then, we'll put EZ-Pass at all the Mexican Borders and issue everyone OUTSIDE the USA a 4 year visitors pass and make them all tax exempt for an additional 6 years if they decide to stay - legal or otherwise. We'll have Spanish as a default language, drop English from our schools and MAYBE if we are lucky the Illegal Immigrants will WELCOME us in to OUR COUNTRY - what foolishness. I still swear you guys are pulling my leg.

Then, we'll open up a flag company (something you don't have here in the USA any more - not without looking very hard) and they can produce flags of every imaginable type and style, American flags with donkeys, cactus, cigars, re-fried beans and sombreros on them. We'll allow one representative from each flag designing US villa to work at the factory (managerial of course, since American labor is soooo cheap) and they'll pump out flags by the millions. On flag day the line will be 3500 miles long and we can call it FLAGS ACROSS AMERICA and not ONE SINGLE FLAG will be the same.

I'm purposely sounding bigoted because we have had too much of COME HERE AND DO YOUR THING in this country - it isn't working or haven't you noticed? You shouldn't have to drive 50 miles down a US Highway and NEVER SEE a bill board in English - never. Not because someone paid for Spanish because he knows his customers who read it are Spanish, but because his customers should be STRIVING to understand that sign in ENGLISH. AMERICANS SHOULD SPEAK or ATTEMPT TO SPEAK ENGLISH Then MAYBE I could take advantage of the billboard owners products too. Is that so freakin' hard to GRASP?Huh

We are in trouble if we totally sub-divide into a country of craters filled with like cultures - "united we stand" is not a line in a song (except for that 60s/70s peace song) but it sure should mean something - I don't believe that people here should live as separatists, it is not good for anyone, except for warlord, gangs and racketeers.

I just woke up - I'm too sleepy to type and I hope you don't think this is an argument - I don't argue, I express an opinion JUST as yous do. We are banging heads because you think my idea of FREEDOM has too many rules - well, guess what, FREEDOM COMES WITH RULES. ANARCHY does not have rules, funny - I remember that from history class in 5th grade, I swore we all knew that  smiley
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2006, 01:27:00 PM »

Quote from: beemaster
I read it all, didn't just delete it - and NO Jerry, my paragraph structure may have been poorly placed, but I was talking two different issues and Illegals just popped into my head as an example of wasted dollars when I was thinking wasted time listening to multi-versions of the Anthem.

So we'll have it your way (well... you  and Understudy) we'll release an album of a multitude of versions of the recording, let's say 100 different languages - I'm sure that is still obtainable.


It atually is very obtainable. And we can hire the foriegn immigrants to helps translate it into the the other languages.

Quote from: beemaster

I'm not sure what I think Brendhan of using the National Anthem as a marketing tool - let's rip it apart, reword it any old way that sells and send it thru a particle excelerator and smack every Cuban and Mexican, Every Iranian and Iraqi, anyone willing to bite into a piece of the Big Apple.


Have you seen the car dearler commerials and department store commericals lately during national holidays. It already is a marketing tool.

Quote from: beemaster

Call me a bigot, but I think Cubans (although they have taken over Miami and further North) have done a pretty good job of filling a void and economically support the Nation - unlike our million (I keep hearing numbers from 11 to 100 million and I doubt the latter is close) Mexican amigos who don't want to play, they are not getting (to quote my Mom BALLZIE) and want things THEIR WAY not OUR WAY and not even THEIR WAY "QUIETLY" which might be the sensible thing to do.


Really? I almost had to run them over as they lay in the street during the Elian Gonzalze incident. My aim should have been better. They have had two mayors tossed out of office in a row because of corruption issues. The billboards are in spanish, all the legal documents in miami and dade county come in both english and spanish. Most of the older cubans are here on a refugee status, which means they don't have to get green cards or bother with trying to get citizenship. Also they have managed to produce a discrimination style all their own, if you aren't cuban or of cuban heritage it can be very difficult to achieve in Miami. SoCal is abut the same  with it mexican population. However here is the very distinct difference. Even here in Miami the cubans are not willing to pick crops or do landscaping. They feel that is beneath them(general stereotype not true of every single one, but is a majority who feel that way).

Nah I don't think your a bigot, a lot of people feel the way you do. I think though a lot people tend to forget that they have family that came from somewhere else also. If you were to base hiring practices or transact buisness with the intent of discrimination that is bigoted, and against the law. Let us not also forget that while some of the canadians speak english others do not and they come into this country illeglly also. It just isn't as big of a deal because they already speak english.

Quote from: beemaster

We'll use the money from that album a few paragraphs back (all $12.00 proceeds) to pay for Illegal Immigration - I'm sure California could use the relief it will bring their economy. Then, we'll put up BORDERS to keep the Americans OUT of Little Cuba, Little Havana, because we wouldn't want to upset their way of life or cause turmoil in their "carried over" cultures. That's it, we'll build WALLS TO KEEP THE AMERICANS OUT!!!! That's the LIBERAL WAY - I've seen the LIGHT!


LMAO, that is great. We have something very close to that we call them indian reservations. However the idea on the album isn't all bad.

Quote from: beemaster

Then, we'll put EZ-Pass at all the Mexican Borders and issue everyone OUTSIDE the USA a 4 year visitors pass and make them all tax exempt for an additional 6 years if they decide to stay - legal or otherwise. We'll have Spanish as a default language, drop English from our schools and MAYBE if we are lucky the Illegal Immigrants will WELCOME us in to OUR COUNTRY - what foolishness. I still swear you guys are pulling my leg.


Too late, the ezpass is already issued to mexican couples who have children born in the US. It is some type of ID card I can't recall the name.
The tax exempt thing I am opposed to. They have to miserable just like the rest of us and once they are maybe they will stop flocking to this country.

Quote from: beemaster

Then, we'll open up a flag company (something you don't have here in the USA any more - not without looking very hard) and they can produce flags of every imaginable type and style, American flags with donkeys, cactus, cigars, re-fried beans and sombreros on them. We'll allow one representative from each flag designing US villa to work at the factory (managerial of course, since American labor is soooo cheap) and they'll pump out flags by the millions. On flag day the line will be 3500 miles long and we can call it FLAGS ACROSS AMERICA and not ONE SINGLE FLAG will be the same.


We did that once in history, That is where the flag that said "Don't tread on me" came from along with many other styles. The flag could change also if we garner another state of if congress just decided to change the look of it. And if they do we will have kept plenty of chinese and tiwanesse employed because they will have to make new flags. I would like the new one instead of stars we will  just have a bunch of corprate logos in place of them.

Quote from: beemaster

I'm purposely sounding bigoted because we have had too much of COME HERE AND DO YOUR THING in this country - it isn't working or haven't you noticed? You shouldn't have to drive 50 miles down a US Highway and NEVER SEE a bill board in English - never. Not because someone paid for Spanish because he knows his customers who read it are Spanish, but because his customers should be STRIVING to understand that sign in ENGLISH. AMERICANS SHOULD SPEAK or ATTEMPT TO SPEAK ENGLISH Then MAYBE I could take advantage of the billboard owners products too. Is that so freakin' hard to GRASP?Huh


Then you miss the point to the captalist economy. Money is green, and we want it from whoever is willing to spend it, and if it help to get that money by advertising in swahilli, business will do it. If it takes hiring bilingual employess to cater to a non english speaking customer base, buisness will do it. In god we trust, all others pay cash. Also Americans do attempt english for the most part, not very well from their academic scores, but the thing is immigrants are not americans and even if you move here legally and try to become one it can take years and immigrants are not  american until they have taken the oath of citizenship. In the meantime they have jobs and money to spend. Se hable cashola.

Quote from: beemaster

We are in trouble if we totally sub-divide into a country of craters filled with like cultures - "united we stand" is not a line in a song (except for that 60s/70s peace song) but it sure should mean something - I don't believe that people here should live as separatists, it is not good for anyone, except for warlord, gangs and racketeers.


United we stand has been a slogan since the colonial days. It gain a huge popularity as slogan in WW II. It was the lyric to a song written in 1768n called "The liberty song". But since you mention slogans E PLURIBUS UNUM was the slogan on coins before the fear of godless commies made us change it to In God We Trust. The saying means "out of many one."
It specfically means out of many cultures and people , one nation. I completly agree that living here as sepratist is bad. So I don't seperate immigrants either. Even those that don't speak english.

Quote from: beemaster

I just woke up - I'm too sleepy to type and I hope you don't think this is an argument - I don't argue, I express an opinion JUST as yous do. We are banging heads because you think my idea of FREEDOM has too many rules - well, guess what, FREEDOM COMES WITH RULES. ANARCHY does not have rules, funny - I remember that from history class in 5th grade, I swore we all knew that  smiley


No I don't think this is an argument, no bitterness or animosity here from me at all. And please do not try to perceive any if it comes off that way. I have a tendancy to be a sarcastic SOB but that is about it. Freedom however in my 5th grade report came with responsiblity. Because even anarchy in it's bizarre way has rules. Now excuse me while I go yell fire in spanish in a crowded theater.

The basic idea is there are far more important things than worrying that someone had recorded a song that was in english to spanish, and that someone who wants to be a citizen has limited themselves by not learning english. This country is more than willing to adapt it's needs to suit it's own interests as it sees fit. Such as taking immigrants right off the boat and conscripting them to military sevice in order for them to become citizens. Even though they didn't speak english. You can still join the US military without being a US citizen. Hell you can join the French Foriegn Legion if you are not a french citizen. I would encourage those who want to become citzens to take an ESOL class (they are free) and take one even if all you want is a better job. Not everyone who comes here wants to be a citizen some just want a better life.

Remember the ballots in Miami are also in spanish. Univision is making millions as an all spanish channel that broadcasts all over the nation. There are asian channels in SoCal. And the only reason the Irish don't rule the world is because God invented liquer.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2006, 02:11:58 PM »

Yep. All my buddies on the far right and the far left. All those I knew in the Republic of Texas movement mentioned that they thought I leaned more towards anarchist. Perhaps I am. But I think the government got too many fingers in way too many pies.

Oh ummm... what was I gonna say?

OH yeah now I remember. Us white folk will soon be the minority. Not sure which group will be the majority, in other words, the group that rules in this "free democratic" nation. I'm sure the individual's rights will be protected as it always has rolleyes
So perhaps one day this country will be going a completely different direction, and spanish might be the new official language.

What I was pointing out earlier in there was no National Anthem for 150+ years sfter this nation was born. If there was I never heard about it or knew what it was. So it is not written in stone that this one we have now is gonna stay.
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« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2006, 06:48:05 AM »

National Anthem issues -

There has been a movement in the Music Educatiors circle for a number of years to create a new anthem that is easier for people to sing.  

Now- let's just point out that I am a music educator, and I think this is bunk.  The problem is that no one learns it, and then when they get asked to sing it at an event, they look like an idiot because no one taught it to them in school, and they didn't practice.

The other reason I don't like the idea is the backlash that it would create, just like our new spanish version has.  They can create whatever they want. No one is going to be singing it at a sporting event.

Other issues-

Immigration in general. I have no problem with people who want to immigrate here. Just do it the right way.  I'm frankly tired of my tax dollars going to pay for social welfare for people that come here and work the system.  You want to come here? Fine, get in line, come here legally, work and pay taxes, and be responsible.  

Things I don't like -

I don't like going into Burger King and seeing advertisements for their new products only in Spanish.  And this is not in the town that is 70% hispanic.

This work boycott thing -

I think immigration reform needs to happen, obviously our current system isn't being enforced and doesn't work, but calling all the hispanic immigrants to skip work doesn't work for me.  As far as I'm concerned, if I need to do business with someone today and they are closed in support of their "brothers", I'm going to take my business somewhere else permanently.

Boycotting American goods - HELLO  This doesn't even make any sense.  We want to come here and live so we are going to shoot ourselves in the foot by boycotting the companies we would be working for. . . .


Yes this country was founded on immigrants, but was built by immigrants who came here and merged their cultures with others. Not by people who wanted to move their entire country here and take over.
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2006, 10:05:14 AM »

I have just listened the anthem in español. I was listening the news on the radio and suddenly I hear...el himno que Bush desaprueba  cheesy -the anthem that Bush doesn´t want to hear-
Journalists are terrible wink
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2006, 11:19:37 AM »

I still need to read the second half of Amy's post - but this "Brain-Fried Admin you guys have" needs to post when something triggers in his head.

First... This has been a wonderfully enlightening topic, I hope for all who have read it -  Thanks to Understudy's Quoting me so para-graphically, I read my post twice - lol. I learned a few things - I've mentioned that I have had countless (honestly over 100 hours) of diversity training in my career and ALL OF THAT TRAINING led me toward a thinking that DIVERCITY in the work-place is dealing with UNLIKE cultures working toward a LIKE goal. We are Citizens (or since I work for the US Navy, occasionally a foreign contractor - but rarely) but we STRIVE for a quality product at the end of the day, not to forget a SATISFIED customer.

I don't blame anyone from wanting to come to the United States - no matter what their reason as long as it is good in nature. I just think that they do a dis-service to themselves and everyone else if they choose to be separatists. I wish productive people of all backgrounds shelter and success in our economy - but BE HERE to build it up, not tear it down. Times are not all that great for the USA right now, Exxon takes Walmarts spot as the largest company, Microsoft (which was always a benchmark for tech stocks) drops $3 a share over night and the markets close UP???

We are in Bizarro times and there are too many plates on the table, someones food is going to end up on the floor and it won't be the fat-cats of Wall Street or the fat-hacks of DC who lose their meal - it will be a MAJOR trickle down and those hurt will be those NOT playing by the rules. That's not my belief only, lots of people would rather see REAL ATTEMPTS of citizenship, rather than the forceful exodus of illegal immigrants and the total carnage that could wrath upon the land - we have enough scars from this administration.

I think you all know I'm leaning right of center and should see some light at the end of the "Right Tunnel" and I don't - not until 2008 and a hopeful CLEAN SWEAP of everyone who has taken our massive surpluses and turned them into bottomless craters, and all for what, a bogus free government in Iraq, a stronghold politically and geographically centered in the Middle East - I don't want to be there forever, and as much as I am embarrassed by our President, I fear John Edwards the Democrats who will again run - I feel in my heart this many is the Gateway to the End-Times, a true wolf in sheep's clothing. Am I the only one who sees that this man is evil?

BUT THIS IS NOT WHY I WROTE: lol - I sure do take the long way around things.

I downloaded the Spanish version of the National Anthem and strictly on a "like or don't like" feeling - I thought it sounded BEAUTIFUL. I wasn't hurt in any way by hearing the words (we'll not THE word, other word - but words) come out in Spanish. All in All it was very nice sounding - a WE ARE THE WORLD kinda song which HONESTLY took me about 20 seconds to recognize, but after that it played out nice.

Maybe too nice: I could see where something as simple as a song (and we all know music moves people) could create a massive influx of people heading North of the border - Now, I hope we can all at least agree, that isn't a good thing. Isn't normal influx hard enough to filter into society without tripling the numbers - I'm speaking about the Self-Policing People on THIS side of the border who think it is okay to take LAW into their own hands when no one is looking: it is THESE people who scare me more then the illegals who come into our country. I fear for anyone who runs into militia in the middle of night and in the middle of nowhere.

So... back to reading Amy's post - I fully agree with everything she writes about how lazy we are at teaching people the words of the anthem, and somehow think if we make it a catchier tune (my words) and maybe throw in some Pink Floyd Sax and a drum solo (my words) we'd all appreciate it more.

I know that the Anthem is fairly new, and was probably long over due when it finally came - but I've been to Fort McHenry, and visited Old Glory many times in the American History Museum (both when it was displayed for only one minute an hour "vertically" and now that it is "horizontal" in the preservation (NOT RESTORATION) room. I get what Key's poem was about, I've worked for the Armed Force nearly half my life and I've met people in uniform who are no longer alive because of a foreign war that we started. I don't take any of this lightly and I don't speak for any side, I just TRY to speak as best I can for me. Words are interesting, the spaces between them are often all the room someone needs to toss in a "but" and next thing you know - it is a different topic, and far too often, war.

I've said it before (both tongue and cheek and in a way, seriously) we will know when there is TRUE PEACE ON EARTH when the MOTHER SHIP LANDS and welcomes all of us to the NEXT LEVEL of existence. If this (everything in history, up to this point in time) were a test - how do you think we are doing???
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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2006, 11:31:04 AM »

Amy:

Just finished your post.... I think I'm in love  embarassed

You said in a few paragraphs what has taken me Novelettes to say. I do fear the day when DEMOGRAPHICALLY I am a minority, not because immigrants came here, but because Illegal ones did. I think any kid in high school taking French rather than Spanish as a language is a fool - it may be his/her only ticket to a "paying" job some day.

Great post - thanks for ringing in on this one!!!
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2006, 12:50:13 PM »

Quote from: amymcg
 I'm frankly tired of my tax dollars going to pay for social welfare for people that come here and work the system.  You want to come here? Fine, get in line, come here legally, work and pay taxes, and be responsible.


realize that most people with low incomes dont pay any taxes.
also, these workers pay social security taxes and medicare taxes even though they arent eligible to receive benefits.
and there are many people that were born here that "work the system".
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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2006, 12:59:09 PM »

Randy, let me point out one other thing on that note. The..... darn what's it called.... some tax credit for children. Some people actually end up getting more money refunded than they even made. They get paid for having kids. And I'm just talking income tax return. There are other programs out there.

I could go on but am about to really take this way off topic  smiley  smiley  smiley
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2006, 04:12:09 PM »

"Its stars, its stripes

yesterday streamed

above fierce combat

a gleaming emblem of victory

and the struggle toward liberty."

If we think that Spanish were supporting your revolution with troops and money, we can think that they can sing the anthem because their ancestors were fighting for freedom.
Vale, I can see this History in your films, and "Quod no est in Hollywood, non est in mundo" -History is written in Hollywood-, Spanish from Nueva España -Mexico-, Florida, Texas, Arizona, Cuba, California fought in your revolution because they could smell their next independence and liberty. Galvez, Aranda, Floridablanca... Works against the powerfull England, and sent money.
Washington said: Thank you for ever, dear Spain! Years later we lost Florida and Luisiana, later Mexico lost 1/2 nacional territory, and later Spain lost Cuba, Filipinas, Puerto Rico and Guam.
Of course, the independence of Iberoamerica has not been so easy, because the criolla oligarchy is very strong. So, in Mexico for example, the white people live very well, and the indians have to emigrate because they are not citizens, and they have not social rights.
Any revolutions were fought, but USA usually supported the oligarchy, usually a dictatorship, a butcher to avoid the Communism. You could see the civil wars in Centroamerica. Castro is in Cuba because Usa had a corrupt butcher in the island.
You can be happy because they want to sing your Anthem.
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« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2006, 06:07:58 PM »

I guess it's to late almost 87 years to late.
http://www.boingboing.net/2006/05/02/star_spanglish_banne.html

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2006, 07:20:59 PM »

Quote from: Jerrymac
Randy, let me point out one other thing on that note. The..... darn what's it called.... some tax credit for children. Some people actually end up getting more money refunded than they even made. They get paid for having kids. And I'm just talking income tax return. There are other programs out there.

I could go on but am about to really take this way off topic  smiley  smiley  smiley


earned income credit(i am a CPA).

i am totally in favor of our national anthem being sung in any language.
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« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2006, 03:00:20 PM »

Randy,

I know there are plenty of people here that work the system that are native citizens. . .let's not get me going on my opinion of the welfare system in general. . .
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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2006, 04:52:59 AM »

Many years ago when the white people came to America seems to me we did a lot of  native american territory bullying. Just a comment to think about.
Also, many years ago (not too many) People came to Ellis Island looking to WORK and make something for themselves and for their families. Not to come here and accept handouts.They didn't come here expecting the government was going to flip the bill.
If people want to come to this great nation they need to be on the same playing field so to speak as the rest of us.
The problem with America and the New Deal is out of control. There are plenty of people who have lived here a long time and use the system,...
And if a bunch of Spanish (or French or Italian) people want to get a band together or produce a CD in the name of our great nation....God Bless them.
It reminds me of another story about offending some people for saying Merry Christmas.... rolleyes
we need to have tolerance equal...across the board. And we need to have respect for each other.
sorry...I just had some flight of thought while reading all your comments. wink
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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2006, 04:52:59 AM »

Many years ago when the white people came to America seems to me we did a lot of  native american territory bullying. Just a comment to think about.
Also, many years ago (not too many) People came to Ellis Island looking to WORK and make something for themselves and for their families. Not to come here and accept handouts.They didn't come here expecting the government was going to flip the bill.
If people want to come to this great nation they need to be on the same playing field so to speak as the rest of us.
The problem with America and the New Deal is out of control. There are plenty of people who have lived here a long time and use the system,...
And if a bunch of Spanish (or French or Italian) people want to get a band together or produce a CD in the name of our great nation....God Bless them.
It reminds me of another story about offending some people for saying Merry Christmas.... rolleyes
we need to have tolerance equal...across the board. And we need to have respect for each other.
sorry...I just had some flight of thought while reading all your comments. wink
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2006, 04:53:07 AM »

angry
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« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2006, 01:25:48 AM »

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes
here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us,
he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is
an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or
birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's
becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an
American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he
is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We
have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but
one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room
for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2006, 01:46:34 AM »

WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV AND HEAR ANY U.S.
  PRESIDENT, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH?
 
 
     My Fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of Iraq regime
  has been completed.
 
     Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war,
  our mission in Iraq is complete.
 
     This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all
  American forces from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30
  days. It is now to begin the reckoning.
 
     Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of
  countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict.
  This list is short. The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria, Australia,
  and Poland are some of the countries listed there.
 
     The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of
  the world's nations are on that list. My press secretary will be
  distributing copies of both lists later this evening.
 
     Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to
  those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The
  money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the
  costs of the Iraqi war.
 
     The American people are no longer going to pour money into third
  world Hell-holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on
  corruption.
 
     Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.
 
     In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect
  this money toward solving the vexing social problems we still have
  at home.
  On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and
  we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from
  the face of the earth.
 
     Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe
  China.
 
     I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with
  France, Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We
  are retiring from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis.
 
     I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the
  many UN diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two
  unpaid parking tickets to sites where those vehicles will be
  stripped, shredded and crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty
  pertains to this.
  You creeps have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets.
  Pay those tickets
  tomorrow or watch your precious Benzes, Beamers and limos be turned
  over to some of the finest chop shops in the world. I love New York
 
     A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List
  2 Since we are
  likely to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want
  to try not pissing us off for a change.
 
     Mexico is also on List 2. President Fox and his entire corrupt
  government really need an attitude adjustment. I will have a couple
  extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I am
  going to put em? Yep, border security. So start doing something with
  your oil.
 
     Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty
  - starting now.
 
     We are tired of the one-way highway. Immediately, we'll be
  drilling for oil in Alaska - which will take care of this country's
  oil needs for decades to come. If you're an environmentalist who
  opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above: pick a country
  and move there.
  They care.
 
     It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own
  citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by
  saying, "darn tootin."
     Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life
  around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about
  everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America.
  It is time to eliminate homelessness in America. It is time to
  eliminate World Cup Soccer from America. To the nations on List 1, a
  final thought. Thanks guys. We owe you and we won't forget. To the
  nations on List 2, a final   thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic.
God bless America.
  Thank you and good night. If you can read this, thank a teacher. If
  you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.
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« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2006, 02:35:56 PM »

It is interesting on how we can justify how LEARNING ENGLISH isn't a necessity to being IN America - legal or not. I call it LAZY and disrespectful, you may disagree, everyone has the right to be wrong.

Using other countries as examples of the multilinguality of their country's social system is fine - and when your FIRST minority speaks Spanish, it may be a good idea for Americans to learn Spanish - but I REFUSE TO  HAVE IT THE OTHER WAY AROUND and "approve" with the idea that it is okay to NOT learn English especially in conjunction with the fact you find it PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE to come here and remain here illegally.

Some of you POLITICALLY CORRECT PEOPLE have been brain-washed. I'm not blaming you, I'm blaming TV. Too much Disney Channel and Darma and Greg and Queer Eye this and other shows where 5 people sleep together and no one every sleeps. It is easier for the LIBERALS to LOWER "your" fences than to spend the money to build the wall along the Southern border of the US - ESPECIALLY when the Liberals DON'T want that money going for borders, but for SOCIAL PROGRAMS to keep people POOR and DEPENDANT on LIBERAL GOVERNMENT.

So it really has nothing to do with the illegals, and it won't be UNTIL they get FULL VOTING RIGHTS in our country (in many parts of the country they do - I swear I've seen this in the news) but once the Democrats gets the largest minority completely tucked in their pockets (most pockets are over-flowing now) then our country will return to the flip-side of the political coin. Some Presidents grow on you - I liked Bill Clinton LONG BEFORE his re-election WHICH is exactly opposite of how I felt for GHW Bush - I was feeling ill about him by the end of his third year in office and was TICKLED to see him lose to a man I finally learned to like, WJ Clinton (AKA Billy Bligh - Clinton's birth name).

In other words, I don't mind individuals as much as I do party concepts - When I think of Liberal Democrats, Ted Kennedy stands at the Podium and when I think Conservative Republicans, I see Ronald Reagan.

I will give Teddy credit, he sure has staying power - that liberal Viagra IV "Drip plugged" into that inflated ego of his sure does the trick - he has somehow remained the same pompous ass no matter what tragedy life has thrown at him. And the funny thing - I heard Teddy speak this weekend, and EVEN HE AGREES that ENGLISH is important to speak by everyone (legal or not) and the National Anthem should be sung in English.

I'm ending my input to this topic - I would suspect half of the members here are liberally slanted and EVEN THOUGH you can trash-talk conservatism to me and I won't be offended, MANY Liberals take trash-talking too personal.

LAST WORDS: To our country's success, multiculturalism has create the greatest country on Earth (at least at this time in history - and only in my and a few hundred MILLION other people's opinion) it is diversity that has made it so. We have often taken the high road or long route to get to the obvious conclusions and we are not finished in trying to be morally acceptable of all people.

Sadly, it is a few people who ruin it for the masses. The majority of incarcerated are blacks in our jails, I can't imagine anyone MORE DISAPPOINTED in them then the blacks who work hard all their lives to become outstanding citizens, only to have stereotypical thugs try to ruin it for everyone.

Too many people see the news and form opinions of RACES or RELIGIONS from the slanted material they see on the 6-11pm new casts. That is the biggest shame of all. Diversity training does one important thing that we should all take to heart: it focuses on the individual, not the perceived token bad guy for any culture, race or religion.

Heck, I'm Irish in decent, but I'm an American and rarely do I mention the former (not because of embarrassment or lack of pride in my heritage) but because mentioning that I'm Irish descendant brings up stereotypes of drunkard Christians who can't even agree which church Jesus prefers. It is stereotypes that are killing us all.

Americans are gaining a world wide hatred, as war mongering, democracy pushing people who have the money to buy and build toys of mass destruction YET we threaten to attack anyone else by stating in Iran's case "They should not even have the KNOWLEDGE of how to build nuclear devices, let known use them." in other words, the USA now dictates (at least wants to) what people KNOW, now just what they do - no wonder much of the world hates us and NOW Tony Blair is getting fallback from his close ties to Bush.

If closing our borders and introducing the illegals we currently have into a viable work force was possible - then infractions of trespassing should be subject to extreme reprimands. Eventually we need to get tough on migration, work programs for a period of time is a good bandage but work programs and visas are a long way from a permanent fix - luckily, by time a serious effort is made, we'll have a different man in the Commander in Chief Chair - and I don't care WHICH PARTY he/she comes from - it is time for a change.
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« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2006, 03:24:24 PM »

John,

I just finished reading your post. . .

I'm in love. . .
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« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2006, 03:45:30 PM »

I tried to let it pass. I really did, but.....

Don't like liberals yet likes Bill Clinton?
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« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2006, 04:52:59 PM »

Quote from: Hi-Tech

     Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of
  countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict.
  This list is short. The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria, Australia,
  and Poland are some of the countries listed there.
 
     The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of
  the world's nations are on that list. My press secretary will be
  distributing copies of both lists later this evening.
 
     Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to
  those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The
  money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the
  costs of the Iraqi war.
 
   


perhaps there should also be a list of american citizens opposed to the war (i am one of these), maybe not just oppsed but thinking that our government has used its military might to commit criminal acts (i am one of these too). so these americans should not be entitled to social security maybe? protection from crime by government agents?(police). well...you get the point.
maybe some of us liberals should be sent to Mexico in exchange for some of those illegal immigrants who fully support our government.

and how many years will it be until our national anthem is sung in mandarin?
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« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2006, 05:53:20 PM »

Amy Thank you Smiley
I made one error in my hurried post and I'll correct that line now - because it is an important one. I'll BOLD the single word I left out that SURELY NEEDED to be included:

Quote
LAST WORDS: To our country's success, multiculturalism has create the greatest country on Earth (at least at this time in history - and only in my and a few hundred MILLION other people's opinion) it is diversity that has made it so. We have often taken the high road or long route to get to the obvious conclusions and we are not finished in trying to be morally acceptable of all people.


There..... that word MILLION sure helped my point a little. lol.


JERRYMAC: to answer your comment "I don't remember saying I dislike Liberals (I am confused about Liberalism and how people choose to let the system support them rather than create a environment of life which they themselves can thrive) In Bill Clinton's case, I like his for TWO VERY IMPORTANT REASONS, neither had anything to do with being President nor being Liberal.

1) He loves meeting people - all people, rich , poor, dirt farmers to Space Shuttle Pilots, etc.. I have studied his interaction with the public during all his campaigns and I HONESTLY BELIEVE (and know in my heart) he was sincere in learning from anyone who had an experience to share. This is his greatest quality as a human and honorable.

2) Beside his lies and deception about the Monica thing and "what does "is" mean when being deposed", he was/is a very smart man - unlike the baboon we have in office now. Clinton believed in peaceful solutions, but understood that peace was not always an option on a table. It takes a wise man to see and understand the difference. Sometimes you need to deal with the Lessor of two evils RATHER THAN the Evil of two lessers - this seems to happen most often in Presidential elections.

Both Clinton and GW Bush have two distinctive quirks - Clinton has his HUMBLING LIP-BITING and Bush has his SMIRKY AGITATED WISE-CRACKING REMARKS which he uses to talk DOWN at the people he has sworn to preserve. Given the chance, I would have Bill Clinton Chew his lip in a false (or at least exaggerated humbleness) any day over the head bobbing smirkmiester who has nearly 70% of the country believing the only reason we are in Iraq is to finish the war his father started.

Jerry - there are no perfect humans in office - we are men not Gods. I'm afraid that the ONLY REASON we have another Bush in office is because (for some historical subliminal thinking) our countrymen wanted to say THEY voted for both a FATHER and a SON in office during their life time - which is a stupid reason to elect a man, even if that man were ten times the man his father was (which honestly wasn't too high a goal to achieve either).

Yes.... I liked Bill Clinton, still do. After what I've said above, is THAT so hard to understand???

When I pop out 10 to 30 paragraphs, I put myself in that situation where someone can tear apart individual lines and quote me out of context - I'm a man and can handle it. I don't even argue it back, as you noticed in a relative post above - multi-opinion has precedence over anything I or they can ever write. I have faith in words and on a good day, I can find the right ones and actually get a point across that may indeed open up someones eyes or at least make them think. Surely my opinions are merely that, they have no more value that anyone else in this forum or in any blog every written. Words are a gift from God, and when used wisely, it helps us all know each other better.
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« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2006, 11:02:39 PM »

<perhaps there should also be a list of american citizens opposed to the war (i am one of these), maybe not just oppsed but thinking that our government has used its military might to commit criminal acts

If I remeber my history correctly, the first act our government ever performed was a criminal act... and was backed by the military...Signing the declaration of independance was an act of high treason... wink
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« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2006, 08:27:00 AM »

Quote from: Hi-Tech
<perhaps there should also be a list of american citizens opposed to the war (i am one of these), maybe not just oppsed but thinking that our government has used its military might to commit criminal acts

If I remeber my history correctly, the first act our government ever performed was a criminal act... and was backed by the military...Signing the declaration of independance was an act of high treason... wink


this sounds like it would be an equivalent if the iraqi people fought against the invading americans. you are comparing honey and maple syrup. (trying to keep with the bee theme here).
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« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2006, 08:52:43 AM »

Quote from: Hi-Tech

If I remeber my history correctly, the first act our government ever performed was a criminal act... and was backed by the military...Signing the declaration of independance was an act of high treason... wink


No one in the USA government signed that document and there was no USA military, just a bunch of regular folk tired of being pushed around.
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« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2006, 11:20:41 AM »

TIME TO CLOSE THE TOPIC - IT IS WORTH KEEPING, but I THINK EVERYTHING (ON TOPIC) HAS BEEN SAID BY NOW - AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET OFF ON  TOPICS RELATIVE TO WHO THINKS THE WAR IS FAR OR NOT.

IT WAS A GOOD TOPIC THOUGH - IT MADE MANY PEOPLE THINK AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THEY WORMED THEIR WAY AROUND THE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS THAT HAS SOOOOO CRIPPLED THE WAY WE HAVE ALWAYS TALKED AND FORMED OPINIONS.

IF I WERE DISAPPOINTED AT ALL - IT WAS THE POSTS WHICH WERE JUST CUT AND PASTED  MATERIAL FROM OTHER SOURCES. I UNDERSTAND SOME HAD REASONING, BUT LET'S HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY - IT JUST MAKES MORE SENSE.

TOPIC CLOSED.
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