problem with my girlfriends

[Michael Bush]

>My friend said thyme oil, he used this a while back, he said it was a laborius chore but reaped good results.

Thymol is slightly more refined but is the same thing.

>He uses allstars from weavers in Texas, anybody ever hear of them?

I've had them off and on for a few decades.  They were good bees.  I'm just not comfortable getting bees from AHB (Africanized Honey Bee) areas.

[Apis629]

I've noticed a simmilar situation with one of my colonies in which a couple dozen end up on the ground under the enterence.  I always thought they were just bees from a short "beard" on the enterence that were knocked off by the wind.

[JP]

Looked at an ad for apistan on the back of some bee catalog and noticed it has thymol as the active ingredient. Said it's non chemical and for tracheal and varroa. What's the consensus on apistan you guys?

[JP]

The product I looked at was called apiguard not apistan and it said the product can be used against apistan and checkmite resistant bees. The add was from betterbee. Any feedback on apiguard?

[Finsky]

Any feedback on apiguard?

It is thymol base : "Apiguard® is a natural product specifically designed for use in beehives. It is a sophisticated slow release gel matrix, ensuring correct dosage of the active ingredient thymol."

http://www.beekeeping.com/vita/products/apiguard.htm

Treatment lasts 4-6 weeks.

If you have too much varroa, I prefer the Dutch method to catch mites. It takes shorter time and does not need chemicals. It lasts 3 weeks.

 http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/varroa_drone_method.htm

Move original hive  10 feet and put on old site new box, one frame of brood and the queen. Brood frame calm down bees when they notice that the hive is not their own.

Let bees fly themselves to new hive.
After 2 days give brood back to old hive. So all mites are now on back of bees. Now you may hive some treatment and drop most mites from bees.

Continue with larva frame system.

[amymcg]

I think you just need the right temperatures to use the apiguard as it has to evaporate. Just like menthol.  I've never used it.

[gsferg]

I would think you'd want to quantify your mite problem to get an idea of the level of infestation. Do some drop counts, open some drone brood, or do a sugar shake. If you don't monitor mite levels, you have no idea if you've got a problem until obvious symptoms show up, like they have now.

The problem is, when overt symptoms of varroa infestation appear, it's a bit late. If this were early fall your hive would be a goner. As it is, the hive will likely recover if you can knock down the varroa population, but if you're not monitoring, how will you know if your treatments are effective? If you don't continue to monitor after treatment, how will you know your varroa population is in check? You can't just look for mites on your bees- they're like mice: when you see one mouse, there are a hundred that you don't see hiding.

George-

[ian michael davison]

Hi all
JP: Api Gaurd has been in the Uk for a few years now. I have used it myself with good results!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obviosly for the best results follow the instuctions and it is temperature dependant. There have been trials when the trays have been left on over winter and they are showing lower mite levels in the hive so it does still work although to a much lesser extent.

It is also said to help against chalk brood to a degree.

What I would add is don't let it get near any honey you intend to extract it makes it taste and smell like cr*p!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have also seen cases IMO of the queens stopping laying briefly when the product is on the hive.

It's being suggested that people alternate between this product and chemical treatments like Apistan to slow the development of resistant mites.


Regards Ian

[TwT]

Ian, do you still use it, I was wondering about the gel and what effects it has on any brood and how many times you have use it without and side-affects,

[ian michael davison]

Hi all
Yes I will be using it this year. And IMO I would rather use it on my drone raising hives than use some chemicals that have been shown to have effects on bees and that mites can build a tollerance too.

The instructions say 2 trays should be placed on 1 after the other. After the bees have finished emptying the first.

The only side effects I have seen are the taste it gives the Honey(if you get the stuff smell it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Unlike chemicals Apigaurd and ACIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARE THOUGHT TO DIRECTLY ATTACK THE MITE so unless the little BAR++++++ start using body armour resistance should not devellop.

Regards Ian

[Finsky]

What I would add is don't let it get near any honey you intend to extract it makes it taste and smell like cr*p!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets have a look on forecast  http://www.usairnet.com/weather/maps/forecast/louisiana/temperature/

Seems like it is good summer in Louisiana and honey comes in. Are you going to spoil yield with varroa handling?  

These are not intended to use during honey season. When you use DRONE COMBS they catch 50% of mites.  Tear off drone pupas and look, do you se 10 mites. 200 or 5000 when you uncap drone brood.

If you have mites too much, do that Dutch system. You spoil honey with chemicals.
.

[JP]

Update!!!
Been busy and been under the weather but managed to do a sugar shake on this hive of mine.
To reiterate, this hive had lots of empty drawn comb, and open brood comb, that bees tried pulling out, decapitated some. Numbers way down and bees in grass and on bottom board with deformed wings.

Checked hive the other day and got stung on far head and ear,3 stings. went back in with veil and jacket and got stung on the leg. Gave up and closed hive.

Today, did sugar shake. Did 3 shakes. shake one, 20 bees, one mite, shake 2, 25 bees, two mites, shake three, 35 bees, four mites and last 7 days have noticed 3 or 4 emerging bees with messed up wings on bottom board.

Queen looks fine and fatter than say 3 weeks ago and hive has had an increase in numbers. Hive was very mean, again, but I had full suit on,so no stings.

The hive has unsealed honey in about 4 frames. My other hives all have capped honey, working on storing more.

What do you all think? is it apiguard time? Does't seem like a lot of mites but, they are present. and finding deformed winged bees. Didn't find much brood let alone dronebrood to investigate varroa in broodcomb.

[manowar422]

JP,
do your bee's wings look like this?

[Michael Bush]

Great picture!  Is that your's?

I would be planning what you want to do about the varroa.  Powdered sugar.  Drone culling.  It depnds on your philosophy and what you are willing (or wanting) to put in your hive.

Personally I'd probably start with ucapping some capped drone cells and see what you find there for mites.  If you're finding a lot, I'd just cull out all the drone comb in the hive.  Cut it out if it's in patches or scrap it off it its on plastic.  Dust them all with powdered sugar once a week for three weeks.  Then see if you can make it until fall when they will be broodless.  Then if you have a moderate level of mites, I'd vaporize with oxalic acid.  If you can't seem to get the mites under control before then, I'd try confining the queen for three weeks, culling the drone comb and treating with oxalic acid when you have no capped brood.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesvarroatreatments.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

[manowar422]

Great picture! Is that your's?

Can't take the credit for the quality of the photo,
and I'm glad to say it's not my bee either.

Got the picture from Penn State's Entomology site . . .

http://www.ento.psu.edu/

[TwT]

that is a good pic, one of my hives was draging out young bee's like that last year with DWV, and it was a removal hive I removed last spring out of a house that the owner said they have been there since he bought the home 6 years ago and the home was vacant for 4 years before that, proud to say that hive is still booming and I never treated it with anything... I might have something there

[manowar422]

I never treated it with anything... I might have something there

Ted,
is this the hive your doing your grafting from?

[JP]

Great pic indeed, that's gotta hurt having a mite on your head like that! Yes the bees that can't fly and the ones on the bottom board that just emerged have wings that look like that.

Michael, there is not much brood in the hive to uncap and check. Should I check what little drone brood I have? I do have the apiguard that I ordered but I don't have to use this product if you think that powdering my bees is a better or safer solution. Just to reiterate I won't be harvesting any honey from this hive this season.

One more thing, do you guys have any suggestions as to why this hive is so mean. Could it have something to do with the mite problem or perhaps the queen or both?

I have a feral queen I could replace her with, unless it is advisable to wait  until this hive becomes healthier.
thanks for the feedback guys.

[TwT]

I never treated it with anything... I might have something there

Ted,
is this the hive your doing your grafting from?

yes this was the hive I grafted from, right now that same hive is at FatBeemans because he is grafting from this hive and shaking bee's from it to make nuc's, I have other hives I am grafting from now, never treated any hive on my yard and only lose 1 hive this past winter dew to queen lose and new queen had no drone to mate with and it was a package hive I started last year with a Kona queen...

[Michael Bush]

>Should I check what little drone brood I have?

Yes.

> I do have the apiguard that I ordered but I don't have to use this product if you think that powdering my bees is a better or safer solution.

Thymol is, by all acounts somewhat effective.  I have never used it beacuse I don't want honey that tastes like thymol.  But it shoudl work.

>One more thing, do you guys have any suggestions as to why this hive is so mean. Could it have something to do with the mite problem or perhaps the queen or both?

Either, both.  If it's mean, I'd requeen either way.