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Author Topic: Pima County Zoning Enforcement hassel  (Read 12896 times)
Michael Bush
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« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2006, 08:23:48 PM »

Sounds like a plan.  I always like the empty box method.  Smiley
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Michael Bush
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Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2006, 01:13:03 AM »

Well, I just finished relocating the six hives I had been keeping at the property in Marana, Arizona (without a "beekeeping permit"), moved them about 18 miles away. I replaced them with some empty older deeps that are almost completely worn out. They are barely useable, but since I don't use deeps and these weren't worth cutting down to mediums, I keep them only to store unused frames/combs and as swarm traps. I thought I had some that were without frames, but I didn't have six empties, so I used those with frames, some even have a few combs that the wax moths missed. I also have some older worn-out bottom boards and tops that I used to populate my decoy apiary. I posted a sign inside the apiary enclosure: "From: The Clemens' Honeybees
Gone on vacation. Will return soon."

I waited until after dark, used ratcheting straps to lock each hive together. Puffed a little smoke in each to quiet them down. All done while wearing only a pilot's skull cap (to keep them from finding my hair) and a red LED headlamp. Turned out the skull cap wasn't necessary, the girls stayed calm throughout the entire trip, loading and unloading included.

It will be very interesting to see how the officials react if they still get more complaints and come to investigate.

If their response includes the continued insistance that I obtain this "Beekeeping permit", I can honestly tell them, "I don't need one". If they don't ask specifically, why, who am I to tell them. Cheesy

The zoning code concerning beekeeping clearly states that it requires them to investigate to determine if I am keeping the bees according to the code guidelines. If I am not, the code then requires them to contact the Health Department for a determination whether the bees are a nuisance or hazard, if they are determined to be so, their fate is then decided by a joint decision of the zoning and health inspectors. None of this has happened yet. The Health Department inspectors have visited twice, in reponse to complaints filed directly with their department. The zoning enforcement office had received its own complaint, yet has not acted on it in accordance with the zoning code concerning beekeeping.
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<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
Jack Parr
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2006, 04:48:05 AM »

Quote from: Michael Bush
Sounds like a plan.  I always like the empty box method.  Smiley


Think now. Is this really a good plan, trying to make fools out of someone that is entrusted with OFFICIAL duties? Hopefully if this enforcement situation of no bees persist " they " will have a sense of humor when confronted with a trick hive or hives Tongue

Seems like the Joe guy is in fact going to rollover since he is moving the actual bees to another location. In fact  that plan may well be the undoing since Joe does have another place to keep the bees

I would have actually waited for the " hammer " to fall and not waste my time doing some foolishness.  

If in fact the " snitch " is known, then a face to face discussion with same could prove to be the wiser course, as mentioned above.
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Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2006, 05:27:00 AM »

Jack,
Many people move their bees from time to time for many valid reasons. This is just another valid reason to temporarily have the bees somewhere else. Not to make a fool of the officials, but of the complainer(s). From questions and statements made by the investigators, it appears the main issue is the bees use of a small children’s wading pool as their water source. Since there are a great many more honeybees in the area, other than mine. This wading pool will, most likely still be popular with the bees as long as the pool owner leaves it full of stale, dirty water.. At least, for now, they won't be my bees trespassing in someone else's wading pool.

If this does happen, and another complaint is made to the health department, they investigate and discover my bees are temporarily working somewhere else. I will have a record to prove that other bees are also present in the area, not just mine.
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<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
Jack Parr
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« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2006, 06:00:29 AM »

WHAT smiley  smiley

You don't sleep smiley

Your isssue is not the first I've read about. In fact bees in pools are so common that by now everyone SHOULD be aware the bees will seek out any water supply if they need it.  Your bees on any bees.

Misguided fears, I agree but...  

Sometimes this stuff about bees gets downright foolish. However there is that FEAR FACTOR depicted very graphically by the " KILLER BEE " phenom.  It's irrational for those of us who do understand bees but most peeps don't.  In fact since I've started keeping bees I have yet to speak to ANYONE with any knowledge about bees except for their one vivid stinging incident and their now they are convinced that bees are dangerous.

Personally I don't know what I will do about keeping bees when the AHB's are established in my area, and they are on their way. I have some hives populated with ferals that are very defensive and believe me they are not very pleasent to work. In fact, I have, right now, in my house, sittin' on a shelf, some replacement QUEENS, SMR Italians, acquired yesterday, to replace some of those nasty buggers. I was in the Queen and package supplier's yard yesterday and it was amazing how docile his bee's are. I walked around without protection taking pictures. The temp was mild but not cold.

I recently did some hive work on those nasty critters and they do seem to remember their experiences because now whenever I go near their hives up they come after me and whoever is around, including my old lady, who has been stung three or four times due to my beekeeping activities close to the house, within 50 feet. Now I have nasty bees, plus a disgruntled very good COOK and dishwasher cheesy  I keep telling her that it's good therapy. wink  I did move one hive and the other is soon to be moved also.

I still think you should have waited to see how far the authorities would go to make you bend to their way. Actually, as I see it, all they could make you do is move the bees, and you've done that, so...

Build a big swimming pool in your yard for a water supply smiley  Tongue  That'll show 'em
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Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2006, 06:38:57 AM »

Jack,
I don't really plan to tell them about having moved the bees. Unless they specifically ask that question. Where they were moved is none of their business. When they will return is not their business either.

If they actually become a nuisance or hazard, according to the health department, or me, then I will promptly take appropriate action. To me that is what the code requires, and is perfectly reasonable. Being the only beekeeper, forced to comply with some imaginary ordinance, to my mind, is not reasonable.

I also don't plan to keep them away permanently, just until I get this "Beekeeping permit" issue resolved.

BTW, they are near my 300 gallon Koi pond, they take good advantage of it, but that has never kept them from visiting all the neighbor's dog and cat dishes too.
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<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
Understudy
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« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2006, 07:32:00 AM »

Welcome to the world of renegade beekeepers.

I am in a similar situation. The area I live in is zoned residential. The local codes say that bees may not be kept in a residential zoned area.  The state has no problem with my keeping the bees but they are not the final authority.
Fortunatly my neighbors have no desire to rat me out.

I wish you luck in your endevors.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2006, 10:08:01 PM »

Well early this afternoon I got most of the letters into the mail. Three that were certified, return receipt requested. Those three were almost $15 just to send them to downtown offices in this same town, whew. Up front this is gonna cost much more than the $25 permit, but I'm hoping to send a message. With how things are going in our beekeeping world, mites, AHB, etc. And beekeepers dropping out due to the degree of difficulty now common in the field of beekeeping. We need bees for our crops, now, even more than ever. Some states have incentive programs to recruit beekeepers, my county/state seems to be developing a disincentive program. Seems misinformed and quite apathetic.
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<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
ian michael davison
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« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2006, 02:24:00 AM »

Hi all
Ah the land of the free.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Next time you have a face to face with one of these guys dont P them off.
I think these guys are the same the world over cheesy
Give them a jar of honey and bore them to death about bees.

Regards Ian
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Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2006, 05:47:49 AM »

No worries, I always do my best to respond politely and moderately to even the strongest provocations.

My strongest response, so far, has been to attempt to ensure that their boss is aware of what they are doing. My guess is that they are doing this on their own and once their boss is aware, they may desist.
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<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
ian michael davison
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« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2006, 07:41:20 AM »

Hi all
The trouble is local Goverment are always looking for an excuse to justify their existance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! angry


Regards Ian
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Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2006, 07:54:10 AM »

I received copies of the reports from the Health Department, both expound how they were in close proximity to the hives without any hint of aggressive behaviors and the first one quotes the complainer as being "freaked out" simply by the thought of my bees being that close to her. She being, therefore unable to participate in any outdoor activities at her home.

Of course, zoning enforcement drove by on the 17th and issued us, 3 - $750 citations. Two for my brother's hobbies, playing with old cars (keeping a junkyard) and having his workspace outdoors (open storage). Incidentally they wrote my citation for keeping 6 empty swarm-catching boxes. The hearing is on the 11th of May. My brother is going to clean up his junk yard, thank goodness. I'm going to ask them why I was cited for trying to catch and remove feral, potentially AHB's from the area? I will also ask them for an explanation concerning the imaginary requirement for a "Beekeeping permit" should I return any bees to the premises in the future. Either way, that will wait a few months while the wall of 25 foot tall Arundo donax (Giant Spanish reed) grows to obscure most of the entire property from any neighbors view.
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<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
Jack Parr
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Location: Lockport, LA


« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2006, 08:07:31 AM »

Beginning to be complicated, or so it seems  smiley

You could call your empty hives a " welcome center for your current daily, and nightly, guest  " smiley  as per the news of the mongal hoards invading your part of the country wink
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ctsoth
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« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2006, 09:55:20 AM »

So, is your local government there to serve you as they would claim, or to establish dominion over you?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2006, 10:21:42 AM »

I'ts wonderful to live in a free country.  Of course it's not free.  Apparently it just cost you $2250.  I always wonder how it makes a government employee feel to know they are being used to harrass people.  If normal people did what they do it would be extortion or at least harrassment.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2006, 10:55:43 AM »

But let us not forget..... it was some civilian busy-body that didn't like looking at the junk on someone elses property that started those "clean city" ordanances. And the government, while they are suppose to protect an individuals right, willingly jumped on the change to pass laws that might net them some more extortion money. And then everyone bowed down and excepted it instead of protesting it.

OH darn it.... got me started on the freedom thing again....
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« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2006, 03:50:07 PM »

Quote
Incidentally they wrote my citation for keeping 6 empty swarm-catching boxes.

Is this against some county code huh  huh  huh

I think It may be time to contact the local ACLU chapter.
You are being HARRASSED, major big time shocked  shocked  shocked

Grow Arundo donax, GROW smiley  smiley  smiley
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« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2006, 07:30:26 PM »

I would definately say it is attorney time...
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« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2006, 11:06:39 AM »

In minnesota I have to pay a small fee for my hives [25 dollars for under 50 hives, 100 dollars for over fifty hives] but my hives and their location get added to a list that farmers can request to see before spraying pesticides, and also the state inspector supposedly makes it out every couple years or years to go thru your hives and -supposedly- make sure they are healthy...  Although it really isn't the states business in my opinion...
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Jack Parr
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« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2006, 08:48:33 AM »

Quote from: ctsoth
In minnesota I have to pay a small fee for my hives [25 dollars for under 50 hives, 100 dollars for over fifty hives] but my hives and their location get added to a list that farmers can request to see before spraying pesticides, and also the state inspector supposedly makes it out every couple years or years to go thru your hives and -supposedly- make sure they are healthy...  Although it really isn't the states business in my opinion...


Actually IT IS the States business.  It is the states business because the idea of the state IS to promote the common good for all the citizens.

In the matter of bees, IT IS the states business to have bees to help the farmers pollinate their crops that provide OUR FOOD.

One must have an understanding of the function of organized societies to have an appreciation of what the state can do to help beekeepers. Now if YOUR state beeman is NOT DOING his job it is YOUR perogative to contact YOUR representive and lodge a complaint.  In fact you should and just maybe the BEEMAN will perk up and pay attention. Of course there is also the little matter of budgets smiley state or taxpayer money to finance all the little nice things to have but aren't high priority.

Our state Beeguy has come to my place, inspected my hives,and provides advice if I call him. He is just a phone call away. He also keeps bees and belongs to the Bee club located in Baton Rouge, LA. A very nice guy to boot and we are on a first name basis.

Maybe ya'll ought to try to become engaged in the program instead of bitching and complaining  smiley
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