Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
October 25, 2014, 11:02:21 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Illegal Immigrants  (Read 5603 times)
CraigW
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 58


Location: Madison County in Central Texas

Thunder Rolls


« on: March 29, 2006, 03:25:50 PM »

Be sure to contact your congressmen about this subject and ask them to do something about the boarder and about the illegals in our country. We don't want to make the illegals legal, thats not fare. We don't need to keep our boarders open as much as they are so another 9/11 can happen either, but if you do not get involved they will not think its not that important. Write and call, tell them a temporary worker program, that allows them in for a few years but then they must go back is good, as long as the market will bear it, we do not want to put those who are here legally out of work and Americans out of work either. Please take action now!!
Logged

Have a great Day and Thanks!
beemaster
Site Founder
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6254


Location: Manchester, NJ

It is my pleasure to bring the forums to you.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2006, 07:14:58 PM »

My MAIN PROBLEM with illegal migration is that PREGNANT WOMEN come across the border and have their babies here which MAKES their babies AMERICAN CITIZENS and we don't like to separate moms and babes - then dad stays and "uncle this" and "aunt that" and don't forget grandma and grandpa.

Go through LEAGLE CHANNELS and come here like most everyone else has. I'm sure enough legals can come through to handle the jobs that most Americans don't want to tackle.

That is why we need a flat tax, with tight restrictions on poverty level incomes. We have enough POOR AMERICANS now, and I agree WORK PERMITS might be a possible solution, but you need to have a PREGNANCY WAIVER if they want to come here.

By the way, blacks have dropped to second place in the statistics to the Spanish/Mexican population in the US who now lead in the majority population - allowing millions to cross the borders to work and go home at night isn't feasable, keeping them here makes me wonder WHERE do they stay?

There are no good answers to this problem, except to take the same stance as other countries and "feel sorry for them, but keep your borders protected" which in itself seems impossible, but given enough money, manpower and equipment HUMANS can do anything - ANYTHING.

I saw a show on Food TV Channel, Nacho Cheese Chip are produced at 8 million bags a day - imagine the corn HAULING and STAGING alone just to produce these chips. And one other chip maker uses 6 million potatoes a day - we can acclomplish any task if we choose to.

More later, back to work Smiley
Logged

NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection
Follow us on TWITTER
SKYPE NJBeemaster - include your FORUM NAME in contact request
My Personal FACEBOOK Page


"All donations to our forums are greatly appreciated"
Please click HERE to help support our forum.
CraigW
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 58


Location: Madison County in Central Texas

Thunder Rolls


« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2006, 10:19:09 PM »

We must call our congressmen and threaten to vote them out of office if they do not vote on this subject in the favor of the American citizen. This is America by the way, not an extension of Canada or Mexico, both countries which hate us.
Logged

Have a great Day and Thanks!
rsilver000
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 61

Location: Syracuse, NY


« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2006, 02:45:32 AM »

As an obstetrician that specializes in high risk pregnancies, I see women from many different countries come to the US to have their babies especially if they or their baby has a major problem.  In many 3rd world countries, babies with anomalies or premature births are allowed to die with no effort made to resusitate them.  Many of the problems are easily fixed with surgery or intensive care stays.  Of course the problem with this is that they often have no insurance, gety placed on emergency medicaid and the prolonged hospital stay rack up the cost.  We have a 90% survivability of a 24 week fetus (4 months premature) at my hospital ( a regional center for high risk maternity and neonatal care) but the babies are often in for 3-4 months and require intensive care for most of that time, are on ventilators etc..  Someone pays that cost and it is you and I through our taxes.  No easy answer for this.  But I hate to see babies die unnecessarily.
It is 2:40 in the morning and I just got out of a cesarean section on a 26 week baby that has a major heart defect and whose mother went into premature labor.  She is from Canada and came across the border because our hospital is closer for her.  She is self pay and by experience I know that at best there is a 50% chance that she will pay her bills.
Funny thing, I was pretty jacked up from the delivery and sat down at the computer to relax and happened to come across this topic,  it was timely for me.
Rob
Logged

The irony of life is that, by the time you're old enough to know your way around, you're not going anywhere.
TwT
Senior Forum
Global Moderator
Galactic Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3384


Location: Walker, La.

Ted


« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2006, 07:09:23 AM »

Well I hate getting in this but here goes......

First thing and this gets me in the guts, is to hear certain people say they do the jobs Americans will not do,,,,,,, evil ,, reason for this is that a Americans will not work for 2 dollars a hour  so these people that hire the illegals will at-lest have to pay Americans minimum wage, these people are saying this and sending our jobs over sea's and now  want to give our jobs away here in our own country angry  I lost my job to out sourcing and now I started my own business and compete with these illegals. they everywhere..... this country need to do more about this sort of thing and keep them out, I don't blame the illegals because they do it for their families to make a living so when you come down to it with all the American companies that have left here and moved to Mexico they should have jobs so our president needs to talk to their president and see why he can not feed his people,,, the way its going now some of us might have to sneak across their boarder to work one day with all our jobs going to them, higher taxes on all imports to equal it all out....... Bottom line is we need a big fence like the great wall of china and then capture and send back the 100 million here allready (now i dont know if that number is right but it seems like it, might be more)
Logged

THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic
Kris^
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 560


Location: Williamstown, NJ


« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2006, 07:57:30 AM »

Unfortunately, it's a complex problem, that won't change until we change our work ethic.  We had this discussion around the dinner table last night.  Many of the agricultural producers (farmers) around here hire immigrants, mexicans, orientals and eastern europeans especially.  Much of the work is seasonal and temporary.  They have horror stories of when they hired local "american" workers -- slow, easily bored, thieving, etc.  What "american" kid or young adult wants to spend his summer stooped over in a field picking tomatoes for 10 -- 12 hours a day, even for $12+ an hour?  There  seems to be no more Eb Dawsons out there.  It's no longer the American Dream.  I don't know if the same holds true for garbage collectors, restaurant help and other "undesireable" urban jobs.

That being said, we have laws on the books requiring employers to document immigrant workers.  I believe the root of the problem lies with employers willing to flout the INS requirements in a short-sighted attempt to get cheap labor.  Thing is, you generally get what you pay for.  Just like you'll get more honey from one strong hive than from two weak hives, you'll get more production from one motivated worker than two clock-watchers.  And motivated workers are competitive in the market (all things being equal), being rehired and earning the value of their effort.

Maybe this is also why we have come to accept substandard products and services.  When cell phones and computers become disposable items, they work like crap.

-- Kris
Logged
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2006, 09:43:57 AM »

We declair war on Mexico!!!

That way we can consider all those illegals as being spies and shoot them.

Sounds pretty harsh don't it? I do believe there are laws already in place that takes care of the illegal alien problems, but they just are not enforced. Probably because there is not enough money going in that direction. So we can funnel more money in that direction, taking it away from someplace else (Perhaps abortion clinics  rolleyes ), or America's favorite.... RAISE TAXES!!! Yeah we all love that one don't we.

It also seems there are some independent groups trying to stop the flow of IAs from crossing the border, and it seems they have problems, as in legal, because the American people don't like their tactics.

It's great when one can sit back and point the finger and say what ever they want to say, but place yourself in someone elses shoes for a bit. If you struggled daily to make ends meet and you needed a new roof badly, and you could cut the cost in half by hireing illegals.... would you?

If you could have a gardner for a quarter of the cost.... would you?

If the people of America didn't want the illegals over here they would not be here because there would be no jobs for them. There would be no hospital care for them.... if we weren't so warm hearted.

I guess we have some sort of import/export going on with Mexico. Perhaps we could stick some sort of fees upon those to pay for the medical care we give to those people.

I heard on the news last night that there were fines of $200 to $10,000 for hireing illegals. That is for each one hired.

I guess my question is.... What good is it going to do to write to your congressman? What can be done that isn't already being done? Unless you want to give more of your paycheck to Uncle Sam.
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
CraigW
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 58


Location: Madison County in Central Texas

Thunder Rolls


« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2006, 10:15:37 AM »

It all makes me so mad. You call and write Senators and they ignore you, they do what they want to do. I was reading the Kennedy, McCain Proposal on C-span.org last night and it actually forbids an employer from hiring a suspected illegal, now does that make any sense. I had to write McCain and tell him he has lost it, as far as Kennedy he was gone a long time ago. If any of you live in a Democratic state please call email and fax your Senators to support the Jon Kyl, John Cornyn Proposal and the Frist these are tough one.

rsilver000l, thanks for your dedication as a Doctor I know how stressful that work is, not being a Doc myself, keep up the good work and if any lady wants an abortion my wife and I wants a child.

Craig
Logged

Have a great Day and Thanks!
beemaster
Site Founder
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6254


Location: Manchester, NJ

It is my pleasure to bring the forums to you.


WWW
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2006, 01:55:51 PM »

I know it is easy to confuse PEOPLE and GOVERNMENTS - we often say that "this country" or "that country" hates us, but are we talking about their political views or the millions of people who are innocent or opinion-less about issues because they fight hard every day to survive and have no time to form opinions about anyone else - we just hear generic phrases like "The French hates the US" but is it the people or the politics - or both? Well.... maybe the French are not a good example, we know the answer already to that one, but other countries, real countries, not a smelly gay countries like France  shocked

I say some of this tongue and cheek and mean no disrespect for the MILLIONS who have come here legally and made this (in our opinion) the GREATEST COUNTRY ever on the face of the Earth. The only problem is, OFTEN our government fails to serve "We the People" and they make us look bad and evil and aggressive and war-mongering to everyone OUTSIDE of our fence-less borders. I'm not happy at the thought that we are perceived by the intentions of our government, but equally so, that is how we see most other countries.

But I get a kick out of how the French gives the US a "Statue of Liberty" then we inscribed A line from a poem, “The New Colossus,” by the nineteenth-century American poet Emma Lazarus proclaiming "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door." and because we are people with good intentions accept the gift and place it in our most known port of Immigration - next thing you know, we are expected to live up to the words inscribed on that green behemoth. It is not a worm-hole for all to pass, it is a "promise" to those who do so legally that the American Dream should always exist for those willing to come here and work hard and YES to learn English (whether you think so or not) and become proud of what you have accomplished and make America proud "no matter what your limitations or disabilities" become something that would honor both where you come from and where you are.

I was watching a show on CURRENT TV (a TV channel created by Google) and they showed an American woman interviewing Mexicans as they crossed the border - the border was a three foot tall piece of wired fence that couldn't keep a rabbit from crossing into Arizona, let known a man, woman or child seeking a promise of unknown riches at "dirt-poor" wages.

The biggest hurdle was getting 40 miles from the border to the nearest town, walking through some very dry land. Many Mexicans simple gave up and were taken by customs back to their country, only to try it again a week or two later with "hopefully" a better plan to make it.

I'm for a MOAT around the country's borders, it would cost a lot up front, but pay for itself eventually. Something TALL on both sides with a lot of water and barbed wire in the middle. Enough water to allow very fast boats to cruise and protect it and a policy that "This is NOT a warning, it is is PROMISE - stay out and come to this country legally.

Not a barrier designed to KILL those trying to make it here, but something FORMITABLE to break their spirit and deter them from attempting to come in the first place. After a few thousand failed attempts, people would get the idea and their way of thinking would change.

I'm along the Atlantic Coast a long ways away from Mexico, but we deal with illegal immigrants here on a large scale, I can not imagine what the southern states are dealing with, but I can honestly see that they are getting tired of dealing with this issue and unless something is done to curb the problem, people are going to go postal down there. I frankly would never want to see that happen, no matter how bad the threat - but it is a serious issue and PUSH COME TO SHOVE the citizens will not loose that fight, I know it in my soul.

Our biggest problem is SIZE of the borders, I don't think any of us argue that IF we had a smaller borders to protect, it would not be such a pressing and constant issue. But we have no check-point Charlies (and thank God we don't) but this problem should NOT be a necessary evil - Americans business should be accountable for their hiring practice and no one should be forced to work for two dollars an hour JUST BECAUSE we are incapable of offering a wage citizens are willing to (or able to) work for. We all have to eat, have housing, raise families and hopefully thrive. The only ones benefiting from low wages are the people paying the wages.

Time for a moat, and not on just the southern border - I'm sure the Canadian entry points allows a cesspool of the worlds terrorists and lowlifes to enter, and we are busy looking to the south, because we can easily spot the immigrants coming through those imaginary lines in the sand. I swear, most of the boarders only exist on maps and in GPSs - there aren't even DRAWN LINES in the sand in many places.

I wish everyone the chance of being an American if THAT is their wish, but it can not be through a "back alley abortion" mentality, we are raised to think people need to play by the rules - even when the rules are warped and wrong and top-heavy to the rich and affluent, they are still rules and like-them-or-not we live by them, change them in the voting booth or we should leave.

We owe EVERYTHING to immigration, our greatest minds came from elsewhere or were born from those who came to this country. I'm of Irish descent, but I'm am American, not an Irish American - if placing your culture before your citizenship makes you feel better, that is okay, but I'm an American and honored to be one - even when the handful (and it isn't many when you do the math) sit in political office and try to shape the world in a way that will live on LONG after they pass. I think we have too many people in the government who want to leave a lasting impression on the planet, instead of doing what we elected them to do which is make OUR lives better. It is NOT selfish to expect your elected officials to serve your wants and needs.

We captured Nazi scientists and from their knowledge, put men in space and on the moon - we haven't always done the right thing, but I would hope we have done it for the right reasons. I'll end here saying I'm afraid that this is a real powder keg about to explode. I know for many people who LIVE in the states most effected by illegals that this is NOT a new issue, but a life-long toothache and you see that people are forming posses and you really don't know how you feel about that - or you may have had enough and think it's time to stand your ground. It is easy for me to say "calm your jets" but I don't walk in your shoes. I have never felt threatened in such ways, but I know I get VERY DEFENSIVE very quickly when my comfort zone is trespassed on.

If any of this seems OUT OF ORDER, I cut and pasted a lot of stuff and I apologize for the scattering of ideas.
Logged

NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection
Follow us on TWITTER
SKYPE NJBeemaster - include your FORUM NAME in contact request
My Personal FACEBOOK Page


"All donations to our forums are greatly appreciated"
Please click HERE to help support our forum.
abejaruco
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 598

Location: cadiz


« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2006, 11:52:58 AM »

I can say that Spain (in Europe) is an example of invasion-colonization, emigration and immigration . Different concepts.
"Civilized" countries can invade-colonize poor countries. The colonized country is controlled by a corrupt olygarchy that send the resources to the metropoly. Spain colonized Iberoamerica, centuries later Iberoamerica was controlled by the USA and the olygarchy. -Monroe doctrine- Actually Matrix or multinationals or globalization.

Spain was a country of emigrants too. We had a civil war, 1936-1939, won Franco, "friend" of Hitler. Thousans of socialist traveled to France where were received in concentration camps. When Hitler lost the war we suffer a blockade. Blockade is hungry. When Europe was receiving the Plan Marshall we received economic sanctions. 3 or 4 millions of Spanish emigrated to France, Germany, England, Mexico, Argentina and Brazil. Many of them have come back.

And actually we are receiving immigrants, last years 5 millions of Africans, Americans and ex-URSS are working in Spain. Many people from Africa perish crossing the sea. Why do they come to Europe if we are sending money, millions of euros, against the poverty?. Probably because the money is controlled by the oligarchy. African oligarchy is controlled by England and France, and the money probably is in Switzerland banks.
So, when people emigrate is because his country is destroyed.
Logged
jgarzasr
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 107

Location: Michigan


« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2006, 10:22:18 PM »

Mexican Immigrants take the jobs that are offered.  It shouldn't be the immigrants you are worried about - it should be the companies that youre fellow proud Americans own.  The once decent paying jobs that are now being shipped out to other countries.... oh but that's ok, but don't let the immigrants come and pick our crops, or work on our roads, or work in our factories - that greedy proud American's own, and offer @ low wages - so they can turn around and buy their oversized house, to eat their oversized meals, and watch their oversized TV’s, and play with their adult oversized toys.  Listen Immigrants have been coming to this country for a long time (I am really talking about the Mexican Immigrants - since it is our border country) - and now it is all of a sudden it is a big problem.  The problem is this countries job outlook is bleak - and Americans are going to start having to accept lower wage jobs - not because Immigrants are willing to work low wages - but because the Companies are only going to offer low wages.  It's just the Greed in our country - it's just that now it is catching up.... even now the American companies are moving out of Mexico to go to China where they can even cheaper labor (and then the leave the factory in Mexico as is - no clean up, polluted land and water).   I am a proud American and I love this country - but in my opinion it is going down the tubes - very Greedy, and an Immoral country.  I really am split about the Immigration law....  buy my problem is not with the immigrants themselves (at least the hard working law abiding immigrants) - but us Americans.
Logged
Apis629
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 823


Location: Florida


WWW
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2006, 11:26:18 PM »

I realise that my expertise in such a subject is lemited but, wasn't america founded as a land of the free.  Oh, and, if Canada and Mexico hated us so much why would thier people try so hard to get into the contry.  Besides, the jobs that are being filled (laborer for example) are not ones which most americans would prefer or concider.  Granted, that's just my take on the subject.
Logged

beemaster
Site Founder
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6254


Location: Manchester, NJ

It is my pleasure to bring the forums to you.


WWW
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2006, 05:47:31 AM »

Apis could you possibly add your blogspot to the Beemaster's Web Ring - Robo is the creator and many members with website and blogs list their sites there - it is a great resource for any member wanting to follow along with other member's seasons WITHOUT having to hunt down individual posts where most blogs are listed just in signatures - thanks...



And Jgar... I kindly ask that you add your state to your profile so we know where the heck you are located. I'm wondering the level of impact on Mexico's Illegal Immigration to you and have no idea if you are in a border state or up in Vertmont, etc.. Just a kindly reminder that it really helps the rest of us a lot. Thanks.

Now....

I watched and was sickened by illegals who protested in the streets carrying Mexican flags (or which ever South American Country they came from) instead of American flags, and many of them BURNED the US FLAG in the streets in protest of possibly being booted out. To these low-life pieces of dog-crap, I'll gladly sponsor a one-way ticket out of the country for them.

If you want to live here, be part of the functional citizenship of this massive and seemingly magical country, then RESPECT it enough to protest in a way that tells the rest of us how much living here has made your life better and how staying here is the ultimate goal of your hard work and share the sufferage taken to make it to this great land - DON'T crap on our flag, burn it in the street, threaten unrest, curse the English Language and swear you will NEVER accept a compromise requiring you some basic patriotic and language skills AND.... God forbid you pay taxes like the rest of us.

I agree that there are solutions and compromise TOWARD legal immigration is probably the BEST way to handle the issue. But coming here with no intent to learn the language (and again I BELIEVE YOU DON'T BELONG HERE IF YOU MAKE NO ATTEMPT TO LEARN ENGLISH) we have sub-communities and even major parts of nearly countless cities and suburbs where English is NOT even spoken across this land - that is inexcusable. This arrogance only causes divisions among the people and creates pockets of labor force which quickly become greater in number than the available jobs to sustain the people - Welfare and social hand-outs soon follow and then we are all deeper in debt and poorer for the lack so National Social Skills.

We as a country cannot continue to draft every publication in multiple languages because illegal immigrants are to lazy or insulted to have to learn English. BASIC LANGUAGE SKILLS, communication skills, should not be an arguable issue. I know English is hard to learn, sure it's easy to us who were taught it for 14 or so years in school for age 5 to 18 and beyond, but as an immigrant "BY ATEMPTING TO LEARN IT" you show EFFORT and effort is a huge part of the basic mimimums that LEGAL MIGRANTS strived for - and it isn't too much to ask the same of those who violate our border illegally IF "STAYING" is their goal.

I do NOT see a day when mass deportation of established illegals occurs, and the cost of bringing the base-line of language skills alone can be brain-numbing, but at some point we need to start a base-line and from that point on, stop illegal immigration at all costs. I hear all kinds of number, 11 million 100 million, etc. NO ONE KNOWS the real number of illegals but in a country of less than 300 million people, it is frightening to even think such numbers are possible, especially when so many people born here, and who have done everything in their means to prosper STILL has not lived anything being a poverty level existence. I can see why so many people are mad about this issue.

I'm in that lower lower middle class, typical grunt government worker and my wife makes less than I do. We survive and even thrive compared to so many, but we have no kids, no mortgage, all our credit cards are paid off when the bill comes in and we even bank part of our paychecks - I believe that puts us in the BETTER OFF THAN 80% of the country statistics. That isn't said with self-pride, it is used to show that as a country we are HURTING. Toss in out-sourced work and raising unemployment and it is really scary stuff.

The number one rule in this country HAS TO BE "Americans FIRST" and illegals need to realize that coming here by hopping a fence and walking 40 miles across a dessert ISN'T price enough to pay to jump to the head of the immigration line, it (at best) should only hold them a space at the end of the line - take a number and wait your turn. And until that number is called, you better do everything you can to make yourself productive, viable, proud and respectful of this country and its people - not burn her flag or I won't feel sorry for you when you butt is tossed back over that 3 foot chicken wire fence we call a border - not sorry for you one bit.
Logged

NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection
Follow us on TWITTER
SKYPE NJBeemaster - include your FORUM NAME in contact request
My Personal FACEBOOK Page


"All donations to our forums are greatly appreciated"
Please click HERE to help support our forum.
thomashton
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 271


Location: College Ward, Utah


« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2006, 05:53:06 PM »

Being an immigrant (legal and naturalized from Canada), it kills me to see people with no respect for the laws of this our home. Would you leave your door open to your house just to let anyone walk in and start bossing you around in your house and complain about how you run your household? No way! Why do we let that happen to our country?

Also, as a member of the military and an Iraqi Freedom vet, I ask any illegal alien to take on that job away from home for that pay. The idea that Americans won't do tough work is baloney. In the civilian side I am a wildlife biologist. I do a lot of hard work hiking into very remote places in hot, dirty, sweaty situations with everything I have to eat and sleep in on my back. Don't tell me we don't work that way.
Logged

After 18 months of reading and preparation, my girls finally arrived on April 11th (2006)!
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2006, 07:29:52 PM »

Oh. OK. You have forced me to play the devils advocate here.

Ain't it wonderful how we tout about this land of the free in one breath, then the next breath  we want new/stronger laws to stop people from doing things we don't think are right, or should atleast be regulated. If this was indeed the land of the free, and we truely believed in freedom for every one, then there would be no such thing as illegal aliens.

What do you mean there are US citizens that will do any job? Let me rephrase that. What US citizen is going to do the job as cheaply as an illegal from down south?

OK let me have it.
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
beemaster
Site Founder
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6254


Location: Manchester, NJ

It is my pleasure to bring the forums to you.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2006, 09:10:30 PM »

I won't argue Jerrymac... We'll both just ADMIT you are wrong and get about our lives  cheesy

I didn't walk onto our Navy Base, Grab a 1200PSI Valve and wing it open, all the while announcing :This is America and I'm a boilerman!!!" I went through the right connection, schooling, on-the-job training (actually I started as a minimum wage road department laborer stacking old and discarded tired, split the like bagels, stack them,, compress them and fill them with concrete to be dumped in the ocean for an artificial reef project.

I was dirty, wet and cold by 7:10 am each day and worked my butt off. I did that for several months to prove I could rough out the though job and made it to grass cutter along the county highway - up hill with a hand mower BOTH WAYS (I swear) and eventually equipment operator when needed for snow removal, etc. Finally I saw a boss who said Clayton, I have 18 men below me and out of them I can only recommend 2 of them, the rest FRANKLY are going nowhere. Job one was for a bridge operator (not two exciting to me) and 2 was for a Power Plant Operator in a brand new $26 million dollar state-of-the-Art Prison facility, along with 5 other buildings attached.

This boss drove me 15 miles to fill out the application which needed to be in by 3pm. He literally pulled me off of a push mower to go fill out the paperwork. 2 Days later, I was a boilerman, a $9,000 a year more job and actually doing something that meant something, that was 21 years ago and now I'm a Federal Employee, not a county, I have respect from many men in other departments who look at the Power Plant Guys as the top of the Blue Collar world.

Ted, this is what America is like - you go through the paces, you don't just walk into the boiler-room and stick your lunch in the fridge. I'm afraid that illegal aliens are doing just that. Avoiding the slings and arrows and running to the outrageous fortune. The problem with that, they are coming into line 3 days after people have camped out at the ticket booth for a popular concert and they have shouted "Move aside, we are Illegal Aliens and we get first grabs at the tickets - the rest of you, slide back a few steps or we'll pee on you!"

I hope you see these examples - they need to do it right, giving them amnesty IF they have proven themselves worthy is one thing - giving then cardte blanche across the board is a sick joke to those who have done it the right way and is a stab in the heart to the people who believe in the rules and live by them.

I don't plan on changing your (or anyone's mind) I just want you to see that the POOR and TIRED and HUDDLED masses are US the citizens these days NOT the illegals who refuse to even make an effort to come here like everyone else hoping to get to these blessed shores. I understand oppressed people, death threats, and everything else that goes with wanting to leave a country that wants you to stay and "shout how wonderful their home country is!" we know that is a lie, just as much as they know - the difference is they are shot or tortured for condemning their homeland.

I feel sorry for them, and I hope they find a way to settle the problem in a way that pleases us all on both sides. But opening up the flood gates and letting as many as who wants to pour in is NOT the answer. If it comes to making examples of repeat offenders, especially dangerous ones (and there are plenty of these) the so be it. Coming here should NOT be easy, not unless you have something to offer this country besides uneducated and unskilled labor - we have enough of them now, try offering something different like skills - why is it that we never get the doctors and teachers and engineers coming here, just the cast-aways. Obviously someone is doing well down there - well enough to keep them there if they have an education and talent.
Logged

NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection
Follow us on TWITTER
SKYPE NJBeemaster - include your FORUM NAME in contact request
My Personal FACEBOOK Page


"All donations to our forums are greatly appreciated"
Please click HERE to help support our forum.
Jacmar
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 44


Location: Ottawa,Canada


« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2006, 09:55:32 PM »

I would not normaly get into a p--ssing match about the country that we/you live in but BB Bottom Board finally got to me. In one of his statements he says;
_______________________________________________________
We must call our congressmen and threaten to vote them out of office if they do not vote on this subject in the favor of the American citizen. This is America by the way, not an extension of Canada or Mexico, both countries which hate us.
_________________
Hello Mr. Anderson, we meet again.
Quote

________________________________________________________

I do not know where anybody who lives in Texas and see's only a majority of Persons of Mexican persuasion coming across his borders and doing the minimal tasks that most Texans wouldn't do- can comment on Canada by saying Canada Hates Americans, a country who supplies to the USA--Our Doctors who are drawn to the USA for Large Wages which leaves us scrambling to find a doctor who are now in short supply here--Our nurses who flock to your country to help your people and draw down your grossly inflated wages-- Our lumber industry who supplies a better part of your building materials lumber-drywall-fixtures both electrical and plumbing to rebuild your housing etc after the huricanes--And our construction crews who flocked to Florida a while back to help you rebuild and then left us in the lurch for crews to do our own work here while helping you folk-- Our oil supplies to your northern part of the USA and then we as folks of eastern Canada have to buy our oil from Venuzala because you cry, we supply-- Our Beef that goes to the USA because you can't supply your whole nation as we supply our country and yours--Our fishing industry that sends to you the best white fish in the world and then leaves us none, because you cry,we supply. I could keep going on for sometime but I was not brought up to criticise people that I do not have a educated knowledge of.

I myself have travelled a good part of the USA and still Ride to a lot of the Bike Meets and to this day I have not found a American who would stand in front of me and say that Canadians Hate the USA and that I and other Canadians should be thrown out of The USA. In fact most of the Americans that I have met are courtious and respectfull of Canada and have a knowledge of my country and in some cases thank me and the country for some of the things we do for you and some of the things we do together as neighbouring countrie's. Look to your big citie's in Texas and find out how many Canadians are in your Livestock business-- your oil and gas business-- your Computer industry etc and then ask the people they work for-- Hey pardner what kind of people are these Canadians? My guess is that you will receive fairly glowing reports that these people fit quite nicely into your way of life and work. I grew up in Calgary in The Cattle and Oil industry areas and still have a great number of Canadian friends who have legally imigrated to the USA are now in your State of Texas, probably doing jobs Americans didn't want or didn't have the experience to get the job. Believe it or not we Canadians do go to school--we don't live in igloos-- the indians are now on the reservations as yours are--we have electric lights--running water and indoor plumbing and the horseless carriage is taking over as yours are.

If BB B/B could remove his dark coloured sunglasses and look beyond his nose and try to gather a small bit of knowledge of this country he just might have a better appreciation and respect for Canadians as we here have for America and it's citizens.
_________________________________________________________
Apis629 says in his comment;

I realise that my expertise in such a subject is lemited but, wasn't america founded as a land of the free. Oh, and, if Canada and Mexico hated us so much why would thier people try so hard to get into the contry. Besides, the jobs that are being filled (laborer for example) are not ones which most americans would prefer or concider. Granted, that's just my take on the subject.
_________________
Nathan G.
__________________________________________________________

In this comment it is stated that both Canadians and Mexicans are trying so hard to get into your country. Can you show me where it is stated that there is a flood of Canadians crawling under the fences, swiming across rivers and lakes, running the desert hills and country etc to sneak into the USA verus the quantity of people who run the Mexican/USA border. I give you credit, you tempered your comment by saying the border runners will fill the menial task that other folks feel is beneath them, you just didn't qualify your statement as to which country's people were taking the menial jobs.

In conclusion--I hate nobody, neither Americans, Mexicans or Canadians until such a time as I have had direct dealings with them, and then I draw my own conclusions as to which way I will feel or deal with them, a lesson I learned from a very wise old man.

To the two gentlemen I have taken exception above to their posts, please accept my appology if what I have written is wrong. Just my opinions.

To the monitor of this thread-- If you find this offensive please delete as no offense is intended, just a opinion.

Jack
Logged

"The key to life is to Die Young at a very Old Age"
beemaster
Site Founder
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6254


Location: Manchester, NJ

It is my pleasure to bring the forums to you.


WWW
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2006, 12:50:31 AM »

Jacmar:

I have made many comments on this subject - I read B/Bs comments too and feel sorry for someone with good intension that misses the mark by a million or two miles. I get more paranoia than patriotism in his posts, and I can't speak for everyone, but I feel safe in saying that most of us don't feel the same.

Communicating your feelings with the senate (both houses) and the executive are fine but at the end of the day good luck getting more than a generic letter expressive how they think you are a wonderful patriot and how much your opinion has effected the officials personal and political beliefs.

Our problem is NOT Canada - except for the really bad guys from the East who find it easier to get in from the North than from the south. Even they have a hundred better ways than to come in through your borders - monitored or not.

I honestly had hoped that you had comments on my thoughts or opinions on this - my lengthy writings tend to vice many opinions - strangly, I find myself taking both sides and letting the issues argue themselves out.

I just hate to see made Texans and Arizonans gunning down families as the trek 40 miles of Mars like landscape to come here with only a hope and a dream. That is not what American is about, nor what Mexicans want, but surely they must fear.

I'm still mad we didn't take out Bagdad in 1991 when we were there. The UN is apathetic excuse of money launderers - but George HW Bush didn't have the guts to do what he felt was right - we needed Ronald Reagan, I think he would have told the UN to "Bite US" and done what needed to be done. Now, 15 years later, we would have had enough money to build that moat along our borders and shoot second offenders if the survive the alligators and barbed wire.

Our problem, we are so afraid that we will offend people, we spend billions to make new friends. A dozen times I've seen Georgie Bush say "This is the President of Watkateekapuka, we just gave him $500 million in aid to help rebuild and protect his country - he is our FRIEND." Give me $500 million Gorge, I'll be your best buddy, even if I need apuke bucked next to my bed.

We have leadership problems, they are getting worse and scandels are not just rumors any more, they are headlines and the buck is stopping at the desk of the President.

I try to be fair - I don't mind pointing out my own faults, why would I cover up Americans? I hope the 2008 candidates are different than the ones popping their heads slowly in the ring now - Kerrys, Edwards, Clintons, McCains, all make me wonder, where are the people who formed such a wonderful land? I know they all died a long time ago, but everything cycles and I sure hope it cycles soon - we can't afford to have another 8 to 16 years of CRAP dished out to us. Meanwhile India, Taiwan, China and other Eastern Countries are growing in leaps and bounds - and we don't even get a thank you as their greatest importers - go figure.
Logged

NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection
Follow us on TWITTER
SKYPE NJBeemaster - include your FORUM NAME in contact request
My Personal FACEBOOK Page


"All donations to our forums are greatly appreciated"
Please click HERE to help support our forum.
TwT
Senior Forum
Global Moderator
Galactic Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3384


Location: Walker, La.

Ted


« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2006, 08:11:03 AM »

Quote from: beemaster
I won't argue Ted... We'll both just ADMIT you are wrong and get about our lives  cheesy  


John, Didn't you mean Jerry  rolleyes , think this is the second time he has called you "Ted"  Jerrymac, I seen Ted and had to see what I said  Shocked  cheesy  wink  

and I would have to disagree with you also Jerry, it's not that it's work that American's want do, it that the farmers, business owners, and anyone that hires these people can pay these people 2 dollars a hour and come out cheaper than paying minimum wage and having to pay taxes because these people are not citizens have no writes in this country and because they are here illegally and would be deported, its like sweat shops in china ... its all our government, I don't hold it against those people that come across the boarder, but still this is America and we have laws and these laws should be followed, this country language is English not Spanish and we should stand up for these things because it our country we are talking about .... I know a Hispanic american (legal) that gets a truck load of illegals in atlanta to  work for him framing homes, these guys get paid low, he gets to keep the money, he even told me his self that what are they going to do , tell the police on him..... just my 0.02 cents
Logged

THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic
beemaster
Site Founder
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6254


Location: Manchester, NJ

It is my pleasure to bring the forums to you.


WWW
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2006, 09:28:55 AM »

Sorry Ted:

I'm noticing something scary here that I need to see my doctor about. I'm finding myself typing scrambled up words, totally incorrect words and even now I see I'm referring to the wrong people JUST because I have someone else's name in my thoughts.

I'm writing this WHAT I'll CALL UPSTAIR - in the bedroom computer, without spell check and do my VERY BEST to fix issues as they occur and proof read too - wish me luck.

I appologize to anyone I have insulted through my confusion - I had suffered a serious infection im my brain a few years back, it causes odd and unexplainable things to come and go, often without notice until pointed out to me by others.

It is scary to me knowing that the Mastoiditis, Lyme-Mennegitis combo has effected me in such a way - I use to be a lot sharper cookie than I sit here before you today.

I think I'll need to make generic statements, I don't want to insult the wrong person when pointing out what I think is an arguable issue - it isn't fair to the person wrongfully mentioned and the guy it was meant for never got the points intended. I appologise again for my confusion.

I think my points were valid, so far I haven't written anything that I appologise for, just my aim has been off at who it was directed.

The sad part, I probably will get worse as old age approaches - this particular infection causes alsheimer like conditions early in many cases - of all the things I wouldn't want loosing my mind slowly scares me the most - I can not image not remembering my own wife who God blessed me with so many years ago, I hope this never happens, but I've been told that my risks are many time that of the average man who didn't have these combination of infectious diseases.

Sorry Ted, for those who don't know it,  Ted is one of our Moderators - I trust his opinions, credit him for common sense and hope he stays around to help us a long and productive time.

I've said enough about this immigration topic any way - there is a problem and either you recognise it, avoid it or correct it and which you do depends on where you are, and who you are. I don't think that hiring an American at a higher price mant times OVER an illegal willing to do a job at 1/3rd the price (given they both do exactly the same quality work) will make a bit of difference in the grand scheme of things.

To the Illegal, you get a good savings, but have little recourse if problems occur. With the American, you get a degree of warrentee and the ability to sue if a meeting of minds cannot resolve a problem. In the end, you get what you pay for. Is our willingness to hire a person FALL upon whether we can sue them or not - that is pathetic.

But if the job it basic yard work, where an illegal is talented in pruning and prepping grass, etc. You may be feeding a man and a family of 10 where the American might just use it to buy a 3rd computer for his family's home network.

As you see, there are not to many rights or wrongs without consequences - we can choose to keep a meanial living for an illegal so that they stay here or pay out the kaboos to better an American's lifestyle meanwhile help starve an Illegals family back to where they came. It makes it a  moral issue, and I for one am tired of the government bringing moral issues to the table  (at least this President - who seems to believe he is the turning point and the messenger into the end days and rebirth of the world through his Lords cleansing man. Frankly, he seems to be cleansing plenty of men himself, sadly many of them are innocent.

We can into Iraq and let the people keep the guns - mistake number one. First rule should have been bring all weapons to the center of the towns and if you want them back, then you need to process them so we have a database of the good and the bad people.

Having weapons out of the hads of the Iraqies until order was restored would have saved many lives on both sides. Because when we went in there, it was pretty hard to tell WHICH guy with a gun was a good guy and which was a bad guy - and it still is. Now, I think we'll see action in Iran befor 2007, at least we won't have to logistically move 10,000 vehicles into Iran, we have them already there in Iraq.

I wonder right now if Iraqies are wondering how to get all these illegal Americans out of their country - isn't Irony Ironic.
Logged

NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection
Follow us on TWITTER
SKYPE NJBeemaster - include your FORUM NAME in contact request
My Personal FACEBOOK Page


"All donations to our forums are greatly appreciated"
Please click HERE to help support our forum.
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2006, 11:08:01 AM »

That's OK John.... I've been called worse cheesy

I was just stirring the pot, rattleing cages, yanking chians.

I have some responses coming up..... but I'm in the middle of something right now.
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
manowar422
Guest
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2006, 12:32:08 PM »

Another Texan throws his hat into the ring:

TwT has it right IMHO smiley

I'll tell what I know with first hand knowledge . . .

Teenaged boy from Mexico has no prospects for
a job in his home town. He has several family
members who years or months ago made it into
"USA". Those relatives will finance his way through
this country's borders (large black market controlling)
and give him a place to stay while he gets on his feet.

When he finds a job doing base tasks for under minimum
wages (paid in cash), he finds others who have a
simular situation who need housing. They band together
and live in overcrowded rental properties, sharing rent,
utilities and other expenses. Meanwhile sending their
savings home to Mexico. Also buying products here
and sending them home for the family members to sell
or use in some manner.

The "players" are not to blame in this type of case. The employers
are trying to cut labor costs to be more competitive, the Hispanic
laborer (over %40 of all illegals coming over the Mexican boarder
today are from Central American Countries) wants it worse than
the "lazy & overpriced" American worker and therefore is willing
to work harder for less money.

Under the current system, it works out for both of them. Almost the
entire "teeshirt" workforce (as I like to call it) in the construction
business will learn a valuable skill causing their wages to approch
$12 per hour within a few years allowing that worker to now be
in a position to help others come to the USA, but by this time the
worker in question has purchased illegal documents (making them
for all intents and purposes legals) and is now dutifly paying their
taxes and sending even more money to the family back home.

We as Human Beings always have the option to follow or break
the laws of our land. Some break them for greed, others for survival.
Until we strive change the system to befit all (impossible IMO),
we can expect immigration to remain un-changed, legal or illegal.

My advice to Americans worried about their jobs, sharpen your
work skills (we are behind most other nations in education
performance and reform) get the highest degree you can obtain
and work harder for your goals. A wage increase is almost always
due from arse kissing, brown nosing and good old fashoned HARD
WORK, the latter, it seems, being in short supply nowadays.
Logged
mizkidmas
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 47


Location: Woodstock, CT


« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2006, 05:16:07 AM »

Why should any immigrant come over here and bust their hynie if THEY DON"T HAVE TO?
Why have respect for a country that lets the immigrants just do whatever they please? Kind of like a parent who doesn't discipline their child...
Some Americans don't want the lower paying jobs because after paying TAXES there is not much left.
which reminds me of another inflammatory story about good ol' social security of which I(we) pay into...and which I (we)will never see.
sorry...just more flight of thought
Logged

Aerodynamically, the bumble bee shouldn't be able to fly, but the bumble bee doesn't know it so it goes on flying anyway.
KONASDAD
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2011


Location: Cherry Hill, N.J.


« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2006, 07:11:20 PM »

What makes you think our anscestors came here legally? Our country is built on lawlessness. Oklahoma is named after lawbreakers i.e. Sooners. Our country revels in this style of lawlessness. Our wealthy are robber barons and former bootleggers. Today we call them drug dealers. Todays philanthropist is yesterdays tax evader or monopoly owner. I too want a soloution to border control but blaming those people who will die trying getting to the greatest nation on earth is foolish. All of our relatives came here because where they were, stunk. They couldn't feed their children, or practice thie religions or were in war zones.etc, etc. They all left b/c it stunk and risking their lives was smart.
Logged

"The more complex the Mind, the Greater the need for the simplicity of Play".
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.499 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page October 02, 2014, 02:23:27 AM
anything