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Author Topic: What went wrong?!  (Read 1836 times)
Apis629
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« on: March 28, 2006, 12:08:57 PM »

I opened the hive today for the first time in 2 weeks and found a terrible situation.  Sacbrood, bees with deformed wings and possible AFB.  I think they also swarmed while I was at school.  There has been a MAJOR break in the brood cycle with nothing but eggs and capped pupae.  Some larva are laying parallel to the cell wall in the center bottom with the end arched up and minor discoloration.  There was no "smell" though.  The bees were gentle as lambs...though a little "flighty".  I've been late on my treatments for AFB and varroa...or in other words...I havnen't done them because I diedn't ant to be in the middle of a treatment when the honeyflow starts. (Still, technically, my first year)  Tommarow I'm planning on beginning treatment of Terramyacin.  Would this just stress the colony more?  What should I do???
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Summerbee
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2006, 12:23:46 PM »

Sounds like a dire situation.  I read somewhere that sacbrood is often found in conjunction with AFB, and is also often mistaken for AFB completely.  There's that possibility.  A strong colony usually can fend it off in a week or so (sacbrood).  I'd let them be for half a week or so and see how they're doing then... I learned a lot from this organic bkpr who only used herbal stuff.   He swore by peppermit oil as the cureall of beedom.  Just a thought.
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Apis629
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2006, 05:55:43 PM »

I'm hoping that would be the case.  Some symptoms were absent so, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2006, 08:33:30 PM »

>I opened the hive today for the first time in 2 weeks and found a terrible situation. Sacbrood, bees with deformed wings and possible AFB.

I think you need to pin down if it IS AFB or if it's not.  The rope test is a good start.  A holst milk test would be next or send some of what you think is AFB to Beltsville lab.

>MAJOR break in the brood cycle with nothing but eggs and capped pupae. Some larva are laying parallel to the cell wall in the center bottom with the end arched up and minor discoloration.

AFB kills the the larvae after it's capped.  Discolored larve before it's capped could be EFB or, as you've said, sacbrood.

>I've been late on my treatments for AFB and varroa...or in other words...I havnen't done them

Last time I treated for AFB was 1976.  I guess I'm a little late too....

>Would this just stress the colony more? What should I do???

First I would get a definitive diagnosis.  Then you have to decide what to do next.  If it's AFB your choices depend on your State laws and your preferences.  Some burn the whole hive.  Some shake the bees out and burn the equipment.  Some burn the frames and bees and try to salvage the boxes.  Some scrap the combs, shake out the bees and boil all the equipment in lye or have it treated by the State with a fumigation chamber or by irradiation.

If it's not AFB, it sounds like the bees were tying to deal with it by doing a break in the brood cycle.  TM may help if it's EFB but a break in the brood cycle and a new queen usually solve that.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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Finsky
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2006, 10:49:27 PM »

What ever it is it seems bad. But AFB does not cause deformed wings.

It is better that you shake bees on ground and they march to the new box where you have foundations. This is succesfull procedure against AFB.

You old frames are contaminated so heavy that cast them to fire. When you stop terramysin feedind disease emerge again.

Handle with gas flame your hive boxes, bottoms and covers.

When new larvae are capped after 10 days you will se is the grood area in condition.
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Apis629
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2006, 11:42:30 PM »

I guess I didn't concider EFB but, yeah...that makes more sense.  Finsky, I know AFB does not cause defformed wings in honeybees, I realise that that is caused by varroa paricitation.  I suppose I got a little over-excited when I noticed a populous colony now having about half it's population, some defformed/ dead brood and no larvae.  Now that I've read up on some info I realise I was too quick to think that the cause was AFB.  Now, after letting the case "simmer-down" I realise that it is probably a few minor stress-related diseases.  Oh, and, about one medium super, which WAS full of rippening honey is now filled with cleanly polished empty cells...the bees really tank-up!  I'm just a little P-ed off that now I'm gonna miss the honeyflow that started just about a week and a half ago.  Good news is that I saw eggs so, over the comming week I'll see if all begins to return to normal.
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Finsky
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2006, 04:16:26 AM »

Quote from: Apis629
I think they also swarmed while I was at school.  There has been a MAJOR break in the brood cycle with nothing but eggs and capped pupae.


Your explanation makes sence if this have happened:

-A swarm left and half bees went. That is normal.
- Egg laying queen went with swarm and you have no larvae.
- New queen has started to lay eggs at the age of 9-10 days.
- After couple of days you shoud have larvae and near eggs you see the fat queen.

Foremore:

You have perhaps varroa and it violates brood.  There maybe some another difficulties in brood area like sac brood ?

When field bees went with swarm the rest bees have consumed missing honey to feed larvae and themselves.
.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2006, 06:29:25 AM »

Finsky has a point.  I think you need to quantify the problem more and sort out the symptoms.  Is your issue that a lot of the bees are gone?  Well they swarmed didn't they?  Is your issue no brood?  They stop brood rearing before they swarm.  Is your issue the deformed bees?  That's probably Varroa.  Is your issue some kind of brood disease?  Then find out what that is.  Beltsville lab will analyze a sample for free.

http://www.ba.ars.usda.gov/psi/brl/directs.htm
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Michael Bush
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Apis629
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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2006, 11:34:49 AM »

I think it was just my own over-reaction to seeing alot of empty comb, honey missing and bees missing.
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taw
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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2006, 10:49:48 PM »

Quote from: Apis629
I think it was just my own over-reaction to seeing alot of empty comb, honey missing and bees missing.


Snag your local bee inspector: (a) they undoubtably know more than you and have witnessed every problem you can think of and (b) it's an education.
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