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Author Topic: problem with my girlfriends  (Read 8876 times)
JP
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« on: March 19, 2006, 04:45:32 PM »

Well, one of my hives, that seems healthy, has some girls that are in the grass near the hive. Saw approx. 15-20 in the grass, their wings looked chewed off or deformed. Also saw a couple coming back to the hive that looked drunk (rolling around), but dying, there were just a few of these that I noticed, that were on the entrance way to the hive. I did check this hive a few days ago & didn't notice anything unusual, but I have seen a few bees in the grass near this hive once before in the past, but just not this many. Anyone's guess what is going on? Didn't see any varroa on the bees in the grass. No sign of nosema or anything obvious or otherwise. Thnx.
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ian michael davison
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2006, 05:05:18 PM »

Hi JP
The deformed wings you mention are a sign of Varroa. The deformed bees are often expelled by the colony. Tracheal mites also often cause crawling bees around the hive but the wings are a give away.

Get a treatment on. Good luck.
Regards Ian
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JP
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2006, 05:46:46 PM »

I guess I should have mentioned that this hive is Russian, which is supposed to handle varroa better than others. Was wondering if it might be trachial though. Will search for non chemical methods if I continue to see a problem.
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2006, 06:19:10 PM »

Time for powdered sugar treatment.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2006, 12:26:59 AM »

I wonder, could it just be, bees that have flown their wings off?


Craig
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2006, 08:54:40 AM »

I agree with Ian,  most likely varroa.  

Quote from: JP
I guess I should have mentioned that this hive is Russian, which is supposed to handle varroa better than others.

Did you use any treatment last year?

Quote from: JP

 Was wondering if it might be trachial though.
Tracheal mites won't cause deformed wings.

I would suggest a mite drop test or visual inspection of drone brood.
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JP
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2006, 12:05:30 PM »

Did not do any treatments so far this season or last. I did observe what appeared to be burr comb in between the two hive bodies in a certain area. The comb in this area had drone larvae and I did see varroa mites on the larvae. The bees seemed to be working this area with purpose as though they were sequestering the drones with the varroa. That might sound far fetched but that's what it appeared like to me. This morning I saw a couple of bees in the grass again and some again by the entrance way acting spastic.
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2006, 02:29:23 PM »

I had a strong hive with few varroa. Suddenly, during spring (2005) I could see deformed wings, bees that can´t fly, bees removing drone pupae, and few bees harvesting pollen. Obviously the brood can´t make royal jelly.
Requeening is esencial and perhaps you must add any brood frames with healthy pupae.
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abejaruco
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2006, 02:34:23 PM »

"Obviously the brood can´t make royal jelly. "
I wanted to say: "the nurse bees can´t make royal jelly". Sorry.
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Jay
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2006, 08:54:40 PM »

But the nurse bees do make royal jelly. From 6-11 days old, the nurse bees job is to feed younger larvae which includes the production of royal jelly from the newly developed hypopharyngeal gland.

Jeroen Deseyn and Johan Billen

Zoological Institute, University of Leuven, Naamsestraat 59, 3000 Leuven, Belgium

(Received 19 February 2004 - Revised 20 May 2004 - Accepted 28 May 2004; Published online: 16 March 2005)

Abstract - The main secretory products of the hypopharyngeal gland are royal jelly compounds, as well as other substances such as -glucosidase. Our study of the morphology and ultrastructure of this gland in relation to worker's age clearly shows a secretory cycle within the cells, although production of secretion is asynchroneous between different cells within an acinus. Secretory vesicles appear already in 3 day old bees, while peak production is around 6 days. Thereafter, the volume of the acini as well as the number of secretory vesicles decrease and no vesicles are visible after 3 weeks of age. Foragers display degenerative structures in their cells. The hypopharyngeal gland cells of winter bees contain large numbers of secretory vesicles, that are probably stored until spring.
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abejaruco
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2006, 01:42:16 AM »

Thank you Jay!
I was meaning, or I want to explain, that when a hive has problems in the "productive chain" because nosema, acarapis or PMS, nurse bees can´t work rightly. Hypopharyngeal glands don´t work. Any times because the nurse or young bee is ill. Any times beause high mortality of adult bees (parasited bees are weak), so young bees will harvest honey instead of pollen.
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Finsky
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2006, 03:17:44 AM »

In this time of year if you see wingless bees in front of hive it is surely from varroa. When you take a frame and look emerging bees you see mites on their back if contamination is bad.  Then you take off some pupas and look what is on the bottom of cells. If there is white like wheat powder they are residuals of mites.

If you see drone pupas and open them you may see how often you meet mites.

It case is that severe, and you have 3 frames of brood, it better take all brood away and destroy them. Then give to some cure to bees.

Iff mite attack is severe, the is no idea to save brood and wait that mites suck blood from rest of bees.  It is better to get rid off ´them as soon as possible.


When you clean the hive and bees raise new clear brood it will recover very soon.

Queen change doest not help. Powder sugar does not help.

Russians are not varroa resistant, so I have read. Some are and some not.
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abejaruco
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2006, 05:03:54 AM »

Hi finés!
Queen change does not help...if the hive collapsed "est" (is)  cheesy
If Louis XIV said: "L'etat c'est moi", the queen can say: "I am the hive".
Everything at time. Requeening in autumn healthy hives. Varroa treatment(and nosema if beekeeper is hypochondriac)  in autumn too.
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JP
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2006, 11:17:37 PM »

I spoke with a friend this evening who has been a beekeeper for quite a while. He mimicked what you had to say about russians Finsky. He said he uses allstars from weavers in Texas & hasn't had a problem in yrs. He does requeen certain hives, usually in the fall. He had approx. 130 hives before Katrina. He suggested using Thyme oil. Has anyone tried Thyme oil before?
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

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JP
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2006, 11:30:54 AM »

Thyme oil? suggestions, results, anyone. Thnx.
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
ian michael davison
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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2006, 12:30:04 PM »

Hi  JP
Did your friend mean thyme oil or thymol.
Thymol is a naturally produced sustance that can be man made and is used in Api gaurd I think you guys call it Api life var.(It's the gell treatment) Thymol can be purchased in powder form and is also used in a few other treatment methods.
Thymol is naturally produced and found in thyme amongst other things


Regards Ian
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Finsky
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2006, 01:55:43 PM »

Quote from: JP
He suggested using Thyme oil. Has anyone tried Thyme oil before?


In Finland we use now thyme oil, formic acid and oxalic acid trickling

In reserach the August treatments with formic acid or thymol have shown an average effecacy of 65-80 % in hives with one box.  It is time when honey yield has taken away from hive.

In hives with two boxes they  have a lower effecacy.

Oxalic acid trickling is very important part of the concept. It is done to all hives after all of the brood has emerged in October/November. The research with simultaneous advising  has had a remarkable effect to beekeepers work. Almost all professional beekeepers, and half of the hobby beekeepers  use some kind of double treatments.

In two years the percentage of beekeepers doing oxalic acid trickling has risen from 0% in 2000 to 35 % in 2002. 2002 was the first year for beekeepers to buy the pads for thymol treatments.18 % of beekeepers chose to use this method.

Now 70% of beekepers use oxalic acid trickling

If you use thymol in spring, it may violate brood bably. Most of mites are inside brood combs.

I change every year my queens but it has nothing to do with varroa.

Drode brood trapping takes away 50% of mites.
.
.
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TwT
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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2006, 03:29:55 PM »

Finsky, how many drone combs you put in a single hive or do you use any?
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Finsky
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2006, 04:01:09 PM »

Quote from: TwT
Finsky, how many drone combs you put in a single hive or do you use any?


I use usually 2 done frames in upper brood box, BUT each Langtroth frame has medium foundation. There is 1/3 gap for dronecells. And I cut that area away when it is capped.

It makes frames cleaner because bees need not put in every corner their drones. I look from drone cells what is the level of  mites. I do not calculate them otherwise. They are there and stay...
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JP
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2006, 07:25:08 PM »

My friend said thyme oil, he used this a while back, he said it was a laborius chore but reaped good results. He uses allstars from weavers in Texas, anybody ever hear of them?
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
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