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Author Topic: Getting the queen to lay in new comb  (Read 651 times)
jaseemtp
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« on: July 07, 2014, 09:06:43 AM »

Well I have grown tired of dealing with grumpy bees and decided to start raising my own queens.  I have a colony of very nice bees that I want to get daughters from.  So I placed an empty drawn frame in the middle of brood nest to get a nice batch of larva.   Well it seems my workers opted to fill that frame up with sugar syrup.  Any suggestions on what to do?  I was going to give them another empty drawn frame but do not want it filled with syrup too.
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beeman2009
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2014, 05:59:54 PM »

Yes,

Isolate your queen to that frame using a wire push in cage with holes large enough for workers bees to get through but small enough to confine the queen. Leave her there for 3 days or until it is full of eggs, then graft when eggs hatch.  Hope this helps.
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Beeman2009
Jim 134
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2014, 07:10:07 PM »

    I don't know why every time someone talks about raising Queens they always go to grafting about 95% or maybe 98% of the time Huh There are so many more options that you could do immediately without going all this if you only wanted 10 to 20 queen cells.



                  BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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jaseemtp
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2014, 08:15:31 PM »

Jim,
I am looking at starting with 45 cells.  If all goes well then I will do several rounds of 45 cells each. 
Thanks beemn2009
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Jim 134
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 10:01:06 PM »

Jim,
I am looking at starting with 45 cells.  If all goes well then I will do several rounds of 45 cells each. 
Thanks beemn2009

       For the kind of numbers your looking for grafting is the only way and it maybe time to be looking
into setup a  mating yard and look into how to set up drone mother hives so you have a better chance having the Queen's you like.




            BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
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jaseemtp
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2014, 03:51:45 PM »

Grafting is part of my plan.  What I am looking at doing is grafting off of 4 or 5 queens that have very nice workers this year.  Use those daughters to requeen my current lot of grumpy bees ( 75 colonies ).  Then next year in the spring the requeened colonies would or should be casting off nicer drones?
Then graft from nice queens again and hope that I get even nicer bees?  I understand that all can not be controlled and that they will mate with drones that are not mine.  I have set up two out yards that are 1 1/2 to 2 miles away and I will encourage them to produce drones in the spring and hope all goes well.  I do understand that " No Battle Plan Survives Contact With the Enemy”
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Jim 134
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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2014, 05:07:37 PM »

     If you ever get a chance to go to a professional Queen rearing seminar they will talk more about drones and their importance and how to setup a mating yard what kind of areas to look for so you can flood the area with your drones how to use natural objects to block other drones in the area.I know you will bee surprised how little they talk about grafting and how to pick the Queen Mother hive.




                     BEE HAPPY Jim134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
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RayMarler
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2014, 06:31:34 AM »

Move your grafting queen hive to a new stand. Set in it's old spot your weakest hive to catch the foragers. This will make all the bees in the breeder queens hive young bees after a few days.

After five days, the older foragers are not in the breeder queens hive, so pull a nuc out of the breeder queen hive. I would suggest the frame the queen is on in the center, a frame of open nectar at one side of the nuc, a frame of mostly pollen at the other side of the nuc, and frames of foundation on each side of the queens frame which is in the center. Now shake in two or three frames of these now younger bees to give it population, and set this in place. Now move the leftovers back and give to the weakest hive you set in the original grafting queens spot.

This gives you the grafting queen in a nuc with all younger nurse bees. Put a syrup feeder on it as they don't have many foragers. Check back on it in 5 days and you should see the some eggs in the new drawn combs on each side of the center comb. If not, then make adjustments as needed, shake in more bees or just check back each day until you see eggs and one day old larva. Every five days to a week you can graft and swap in a new frame of foundation. This works better as the breeder queen is not in a large hive, and they'll keep drawing out a new frame of foundation as you swap it in, as they need it in a small nuc to continue having laying room for the queen.
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10framer
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2014, 09:09:27 AM »

i'm with ray, put the grafting queen in a nuc.
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jaseemtp
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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2014, 08:21:16 AM »

Thanks y'all
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Jim 134
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2014, 10:38:31 PM »

    A good friend of mine who belongs to the Russian Queen Breeding Association tells me if you do not interrupt a queen for the first 28 days of her laying you are much better off.......


              BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 12:32:06 PM by Jim 134 » Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
jaseemtp
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2014, 05:24:43 PM »

Well to update y'all,
I was very fortunate that she did start laying in the new comb after I took away the syrup.  I did graft 30 larva yesterday and am keeping my fingers crossed that it works.  Finding the larva of the right age was tricky at fist but once you figure out it is just a little blip on a drop of jelly it is much easier.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2014, 06:12:57 AM »

IMHO,.........
 Rafting is the easy part. I see it has been 3 days now look to see how many you got excepted.




                         BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
jaseemtp
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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2014, 08:06:41 AM »

I only have 5 of the 30 cells drawn out. Not the success I was looking for but better than nothing at all. I hope my success rate does get better
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OldMech
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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2014, 11:01:18 AM »

As mentioned, there is a lot more to it than just grafting to a queenless colony.   Everything makes a difference, from having the cups polished before you graft into them, to the amount of time you leave the starter colony queenless.  Keep after it, and you will figure out what works best!!!
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