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Author Topic: what to do with all the bees!!!  (Read 4913 times)
TREBOR
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« on: February 23, 2006, 02:01:44 PM »

Ok, here it goes
this will be my second yr, and I know I bit off a big peice.
 but thats my way!
 Cheesy
 
I have 18 collonies in all (1 carni, 2 russ frm kelley's, 1 russ frm owa,
 6 SMR, and 8 northern mostly dark Itail.)

I have my bee yard with a ten acre field ( all bees are here now), to the south of me 3+mi.
 I have access to another 20acre field and 4-5mi. north of me I have access to a 30+ acre farm!!!
 its all in semi mountain terrane!
 
this year I want to spread them out, and I may want to try raising some queens and was thinking I could do nucs for swarm control and increases!
 So my big question is which way should I go?......do I mix um all up in differant places and let nature handle it, or do I put the differant races
 in differant yards?
Are there bees that don't cross well, or would it be better to let them cross to make my gene pool more diverse?

do I make a nuc with a new queen and let her mate with another race?
or do I take old queen with nuc and let virgin mat in her own race yard?
 
 to the best of my knowledge there are no other bees here, as far as farrel bees, and I'm guessing with the harsh winters -42deg.f that anything that is farrel won't bee bad breeding stock.

In the long run I plan on selling bees locally as a bizz.
 keeping these things in mind...... WHAT WOULD YOU DO....?

If I've already made big mistakes please don't beat me up about it.. Tongue
 but I still want to know.

o ya if you think I'm moving to fast.......Its my way cheesy
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Finsky
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2006, 02:45:14 PM »

You have the same number of hives as me.  It is difficult to find good mother queen from that small group. I use to buy 3 new  of commergial queens per year and I take first daugter generation from these. If I  take second generation, queens are not good at all. Gene pole returns towars medium.

When you have F1-crossing with your other hives , workers are quite heteregoneous. It is good for colony wellfare and for honey yield in theory.  What they are in reality you will se it soon. You may meet bad swarming years with that mix.

But I do not know how Russians tendency to raise queen cells will affect in crossbreeding.  Or, are they defensive.

So you will see what you are trying to sell.

However it is vain effort to try "own" bee strain with 20 hives. When commercial queen breeder chooses the best from 500 hives it is very different.
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TREBOR
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2006, 04:59:37 PM »

Quote
You have the same number of hives as me. It is difficult to find good mother queen from that small group. I use to buy 3 new of commergial queens per year and I take first daugter generation from these. If I take second generation, queens are not good at all. Gene pole returns towars medium.

So what your saying is not to make daughters from daughters ?
ok

Quote
When you have F1-crossing with your other hives , workers are quite heteregoneous. It is good for colony wellfare and for honey yield in theory. What they are in reality you will se it soon. You may meet bad swarming years with that mix.

But I do not know how Russians tendency to raise queen cells will affect in crossbreeding. Or, are they defensive.

 so I take it ,that it would be better to keep the races in there own yards?

Quote
So you will see what you are trying to sell.

selling won't be happening for a few years at least, right now I'm just doing build up...... my first goal is 100 collonies before I take a break
 if I do sell bees later it will be nucs with commercial queens....or at least
untill I get a grip on the whole breeding thing....!

have I made a mistake having to many races?
 I don't want to make any super angry bees! Sad

honey is not the only thing I'm after here, but to make lots of honey and pollen and bees etc. you need lots of bees......right?

at this point if I can avoid it , I would prefer not to buy any more bees....
 but if that degrades my stock quickly....then what is one to do next?

Finsky I under stand that you use commercail queens, and that you buy new ones often....!
 Is your only goal honey prodution?
have you stopped at 18 collonies or are you still growing? Cheesy
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TREBOR
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2006, 09:22:25 PM »

anyone one else!
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Finsky
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2006, 12:59:39 AM »

Trebor, do as you like! It same to me. I thought that you needed advice, not me. I know the genetic basics. smiley

I have had 18 hives for 40 years. I play with stocks and I earn extra money better from those. Last year I got 40% rent. Not bad. I do not invest money any more in beekeeping.  I KEEP BEES FOR FUN NOT TO BECOME RICH.

And I have civil job. Just now I will start a research "Work site production waste logistics on public areas". How to get rid of city maintenance waste without pain. It is a sustainable environment project. I do not play globe protection in matchbox or on my hiveyard.  rolleyes  Key word is VISUAL CONTROL.
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TwT
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2006, 06:58:08 AM »

Trebor, if you wanted to keep up with them and buy AI or II queens to raise from, I would split the yards by breeds, if not I dont see where that would bother by having seperate yards, if you not going to go for any honey, you could just even them out in different yards, when I get my yards going , im going to slpit my hives up by breeds, Im also got to raise queens from these hives. hope some of this make since.... if not I will try again... oh yah,,, plant them fields Wink
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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
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TREBOR
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2006, 01:20:27 PM »

Finsky
Quote
Trebor, do as you like! It same to me. I thought that you needed advice


yes I do need advise, that is why I asked questions...! Cheesy

Finsky
Quote
I know the genetic basics.


I don't.....yet!.... but I am willing to learn. that is why I asked questions...!

 When spring comes I will sell pollen, then I will buy more books,
(queen rearing and breeding books) but for now all I have is you guys...! Cheesy

Finsky
Quote
I have had 18 hives for 40 years

I see..! thats good...then I understand that its for fun for you (not a bizz.)

Finsky
Quote
I play with stocks

Ok....I don't !

Finsky
Quote
and I earn extra money better from those. Last year I got 40% rent. Not bad.

 I dont really know if thats bad or good....five years ago, I started making payments(less then rent) on 30 acres, orig. price was $35,000. I made my last payment in dec.05 now I own it and pay no rent..... it is now worth more then $100,000..market price!....not bad... but I like to invest in things I can see and touch..
( i dont know if we are still on topic here)!

(I have worked hard as a carpenter most of my life and I have hurt my body from it ...buying this land was all part of a plan to do something new and to sustain myself,..... when I was 12 years old I kept bees, but my mother would only let me keep one hive,
  so this is a big dream of mine and I finally get to do it !)
bees are like an old friend that I never got to spend much time with.......till now!!!  

Finsky
...I know that bees MAY not make me rich... but, they will most likey keep me busy, which is what I am looking for....!
 
Quote
And I have civil job. Just now I will start a research "Work site production waste logistics on public areas". How to get rid of city maintenance waste without pain. It is a sustainable environment project.

thats really cool, if you enjoy that! I wish you luck and hope you do well!


Quote
I do not play globe protection in matchbox or on my hiveyard.

 my veiw in this matter is (think globaly, act locally) it all starts at home!

 
Quote
Key word is VISUAL CONTROL.

ok, now does this have to do with bees?

 Finsky,
    please understand I am not trying to start an argument ,
when I pose a question I put a ? after it.  if you answer and I dont understand,... I may ask again....or..... ask you why you do it that way....
 it is how I learn more.....I do not mean to challenge you...!  

TWT
Quote
Trebor, if you wanted to keep up with them and buy AI or II queens to raise from, I would split the yards by breeds, if not I dont see where that would bother by having seperate yards, if you not going to go for any honey, you could just even them out in different yards, when I get my yards going , im going to slpit my hives up by breeds, Im also got to raise queens from these hives. hope some of this make since.... if not I will try again... oh yah,,, plant them fields


 yes it does make alittle more sence, so if I were to buy I.I. queens, then would I then let the daughters breed with my bees?
  And I guess am asking also how far will this go before I need to do it again.?........
 and am I better off not mixing the breeds ? ( I really dont want a bunch of angry off bees.....! .. if I can help it...)
 
 as far as honey, yes I want to collect honey, but also pollen, propilus, wax, and bees......!

as far as planting, at my place its done, I tried to do it at the other yards
 which they said they would brush hog......to give the seed a chance to live..........I spread some seed $$$$$,.....they did not brush hog.....
 so I wont be doing that again.... I am still hoping that some of the seed will take.
  there is however lots of wild flowers here and I've found that there are apple orchards that have been let go wild everywhere around hear....
  One of my friends lives on acreage with hundreds of apple trees that are not in use, I told him apples sell for money which he needs, and I think he may be thinking of doing something with it this year....
 one of my beeyards will be right next door......
 
I look forward to more input....
 and thanks all....!
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Finsky
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2006, 02:29:35 PM »

Quote from: TREBOR

I have worked hard as a carpenter most of my life


My dad was a carpenter. It was hard work. 80% of his personal associates died before the age of 60. My dad is now 85 years.
He was tough guy. That is why I do not feel uncomfortable with tough guys like you trebor.  wink  Keep flag high!
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TREBOR
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2006, 04:48:01 PM »

OK.....Thanks ....I think! huh

I'm I missing something here!
I feel like I'm not really being understould
 or is it my understanding that is lacking?

Would someone please shine a light over here so I can see!
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TwT
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2006, 06:52:32 PM »

Quote from: TREBOR

 yes it does make alittle more sence, so if I were to buy I.I. queens, then would I then let the daughters breed with my bees?
  And I guess am asking also how far will this go before I need to do it again.?........
 and am I better off not mixing the breeds ? ( I really dont want a bunch of angry off bees.....! .. if I can help it...)



Trebor, from what I understand, a queen can fly up to 7 miles to breed, unless you are in a area that doesn't have many feral bee's, the main thing I see about buying II queens is that you will know what half of the line is if not crossed with one of you own drones, most beekeepers buy the breeder queens to graft from and sale queens they raise and almost all let them open mate what they raise then sale them to the rest of us . I'm not to experianced about queen rearing yet but going to graft some March 3-5, if your not going to raise queens, it might not be the best thing to do (buy a II queen),, most cost alot of $$$.... MB, and a few more in here that raise queens could help you and me out with out-yards and  how they set them up for breeding. with feral hives around, I can't see how you could raise a strain open mating without them being crossed in the end.... hope some of this helps....
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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic
TwT
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2006, 07:29:24 PM »

if anyone knows Fatbeeman from Beesource, he is the one going to teach me queen rearing in March, grafting and alot more queen rearing techniques.. he lives about 1 1/2 hour ride from me and Im just going to stay the 3 days and learn all I can,,,,,,,here's his site,,

http://www.geocities.com/fatbeeman/
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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic
TREBOR
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2006, 10:21:43 AM »

thanks again TWT,
 its getting a little clearer.

Quote
MB, and a few more in here that raise queens could help you and me out with out-yards and how they set them up for breeding.

 
ya thats what I was hoping for  huh
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amymcg
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2006, 07:46:07 AM »

Hey TWT,

I have a nuc coming from fat beeman in April. . . make sure I get a good queen!    Cheesy
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TwT
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2006, 07:58:25 AM »

Quote from: amymcg
Hey TWT,

I have a nuc coming from fat beeman in April. . . make sure I get a good queen!    Cheesy



 might be one fo the first queen's I graft and setup,,,,, will do though!!!!
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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic
Michael Bush
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2006, 12:01:21 PM »

My management is pretty simple.  I'm trying to keep feral queens.  I try to get some new swarms now and then to keep the blood from getting too inbred.  But there are ferals around me (and were before I brought my bees out here) so I figure there is a good gene pool already.  I also have a couple of outyards and try to keep some different strains going there for when I think I need some outbreeding to keep them from getting inbred.  Basically I'm looking for them to breed with the local ferals, and that requires no extra effort on my part.
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Michael Bush
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TREBOR
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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2006, 12:14:35 PM »

thanks MB....!
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Dale
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2006, 06:41:59 PM »

You stated you were going into the local bee business.  If it was me, I'd concentrate on the bees that are adapted to your area.  Raise some quuens, bring in other local stock now and again, and keep moving in one direction.  It takes time, but the results are evident.  The local stock I refer to, is a queen from your same geographic area, maybe a 25 mile radius.  Bees that will effect your gene pool.  Try to get a queen that fits what you are trying to accomplish in the end.  You can import bees from out of your area, but they do not always help your cause, in fact sometimes they slow it down.

    Being from the north, I need a good wintering bee, and bees from this area, are well adapted to our winters.  Add a southern bee to the mix, and its genes can really screw up wintering, but add honey production.  But then again, what good is honey production, when the bees die in a winter cluster.  I also like to get bees that do not go on robbing campaigns!  The more they rob, the more mites they bring home.  Most feral bees from this area that survived, possess these traits. Thats probably why they are still alive.  Now, promote that, and increase honey production, then you have a winner.  Then bees will sell rather easily.
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Dale Richards
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www.hazleton.net/users/dalcol
TREBOR
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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2006, 10:44:56 PM »

Wow, thanks Dale its all getting clearer by the day!
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