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Author Topic: What's a 5 frame medium Nuc worth?  (Read 1180 times)
Thershey
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« on: March 10, 2014, 09:59:01 PM »

Wrapping up my conversion to all medium equipment, I built a medium 3/3 queen castle and have started building 5 frame medium Nucs.  My primary goal is to grow my apiary with current stock but I also wouldn't mind re-couping a few bucks spent on loads of stuff, you all get it.

Has anyone sold 5 frame medium nucs (with a mated queen)?
How much $ ?
Was demand strong?

Thanks in advance for your input.

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10framer
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2014, 10:53:42 PM »

i would think there would be pretty good demand.  i'm not trying to be a smart-a$$ but it's worth whatever you can get for it.  if i needed bees i'd probably give 75-100 for it depending on a few variables.
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sc-bee
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2014, 12:36:38 AM »

Around here as framer said around 80-100. New frames etc no box.... transferred.
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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2014, 04:35:17 AM »

 In the northeast, they're running between $120-$155
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D Coates
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2014, 10:14:16 AM »

In the Midwest they are going from $125 to $135.
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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2014, 10:27:29 AM »

$80 is a guy around here that does them on the low end. A guy that does local nucs gets $110. Not many choices where I live, definitely a market I would like to explore. No wood working skills for me but am going to try the dcoates nuc plans. Would fit my bill perfect and let them have the box if they wanted for $15 or 20.
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2014, 11:09:02 AM »

I would neither charge nor pay as much for a 5 frame medium as I would a 5 frame deep.
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2014, 11:19:52 AM »

I would neither charge nor pay as much for a 5 frame medium as I would a 5 frame deep.


Yea I was quoting deeps, forgot he said mediums..... but if you had medium equipment and you needed the bees..... would probably pay it?Huh Those that have medium equipment what do you think? Or should I say charge it, really is there any difference in the price of deep and medium nucs? I have no idee..... I mean idea Smiley

I realize the surface area of bees is different.... what price difference in charge would you suggest between the two?
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sc-bee
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2014, 11:43:03 AM »

Heck this is a full hive minus the bottom and top:

https://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/package-bees-nucs/nucs/
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2014, 11:58:18 AM »

Last year I was selling a 8 frame medium Nuc the same as a 5 frame deep because I used a deep box with medium frames and then cut the comb below the medium and placed it in another frame. The customer provided new plastic foundation frames for each frame of bees that I provided.
Jim
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2014, 12:19:51 PM »

Last year I was selling a 8 frame medium Nuc the same as a 5 frame deep because I used a deep box with medium frames and then cut the comb below the medium and placed it in another frame. The customer provided new plastic foundation frames for each frame of bees that I provided.
Jim

Good way to get a medium there. Would have never thought of that  grin
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gov1623
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2014, 12:33:13 PM »

I would charge the same for a medium as I would a deep. It takes just about the same amount of money and labor to make each of them.
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2014, 12:51:29 PM »

Around here a five frame deep nuc goes for $120 up this year from $100 last spring. No equipment swap.


Steve
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2014, 01:13:49 PM »

Much depends on the NUC and who made it.

Information "I" want to know when purchasing one or more NUC (s);

How old or how long has it been an actual colony of bees?  When was the queen introduced?  Where did the queen and the bees come from?  Did the NUC supplier make it up themselves from 'their own' queens and bees or did they 'just' purchase them as anyone can?  Were they 'treated' with any chemicals?  If so, for what and when?  Can I transfer to my system?  I use all mediums so NUC's in DEEPS are a pain to deal with.

I've heard a couple troubling reports of 'unscrupulous' beeks buying several packages and some 'extra' queens, splitting them up, then adding a few of their own brood frames to a box with some honey and calling it a NUC, then selling it for $150.00 and up, depending on the extent of the tale told... Sad  

The process in one case took a day to put everything to the ready, starting with a dozen packages with an 'extra' queen purchased for $95.00 each, those bees were split in two, put into 'cheap' NUC boxes with a queen, along with 2 frames of brood from the sellers bees and 2 frames of honey and sold the next day for $150.00 each.  A pretty good profit, heh?…..but NOT the way I'd want to get bees.

"Caveat emptor"        (buyer beware)……..or 'know' who is selling you the NUC….just saying  Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2014, 01:39:45 PM »

I've heard a couple troubling reports of 'unscrupulous' beeks buying several packages and some 'extra' queens, splitting them up, then adding a few of their own brood frames to a box with some honey and calling it a NUC, then selling it for $150.00 and up, depending on the extent of the tale told... Sad  

The process in one case took a day to put everything to the ready, starting with a dozen packages with an 'extra' queen purchased for $95.00 each, those bees were split in two, put into 'cheap' NUC boxes with a queen, along with 2 frames of brood from the sellers bees and 2 frames of honey and sold the next day for $150.00 each.  A pretty good profit, heh?…..but NOT the way I'd want to get bees.

Dang, guess you always got somebody trying to take advantage of others Sad It's a real shame!
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Thershey
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« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2014, 02:01:10 PM »

Thank you all for the input, it sounds as if I'll need to test the market and see what flies.  I'll be offering locally bred queens/bees from over-wintered hives, virgin wax drawn on foundation-less frames that have never been treated with a single chemical.

I think I'll throw it out there at $130 plus $20 deposit on the box.  I wouldn't expect to be overrun with buyers but 6-10 will recoup most of investment which would make this the funnest/cheapest hobby ever for me.
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« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2014, 04:03:05 PM »

Thank you all for the input, it sounds as if I'll need to test the market and see what flies.  I'll be offering locally bred queens/bees from over-wintered hives, virgin wax drawn on foundation-less frames that have never been treated with a single chemical.

I think I'll throw it out there at $130 plus $20 deposit on the box.  I wouldn't expect to be overrun with buyers but 6-10 will recoup most of investment which would make this the funnest/cheapest hobby ever for me.

That's great - making those your 'selling points' to potential beeks should result in selling out.  GOOD LUCK!!!  $150.00 for an established NUC in a refundable deposit box is a good price IMO.
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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2014, 04:46:23 PM »

I sell a 5 frame deep nuc, or a 7 or 8 frame medium nuc for the same price. I don't buy bees or queens to go in them, but they may be a caught swarm or a removal.
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« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2014, 04:49:41 PM »

If your selling a 5 frame MED nuc for 120,  IMO your ripping off a newbie, and should be ashamed....  I realize that prices are "subjective"  but thats just wrong......  Just my opinion....  taking advantage of a new beekeeper whos clueless.
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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2014, 05:44:02 PM »

If your selling a 5 frame MED nuc for 120,  IMO your ripping off a newbie, and should be ashamed....  I realize that prices are "subjective"  but thats just wrong......  Just my opinion....  taking advantage of a new beekeeper whos clueless.

Well I guess im guilty of ripping people off. I dont fell too ashamed though   grin
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« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2014, 07:44:29 PM »


Medium or Deep, not much difference in price for materials or labor.  No, your getting as much, but if your going all mediums there is a cost.
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Thershey
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« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2014, 08:29:06 PM »

If your selling a 5 frame MED nuc for 120,  IMO your ripping off a newbie, and should be ashamed....  I realize that prices are "subjective"  but thats just wrong......  Just my opinion....  taking advantage of a new beekeeper whos clueless.

Easy Charlie, let's look at a few facts before you start throwing around terms like ripoff and ashamed. 

My local bee merchant who is highly regarded (Ruhl Bee Supply) sells a 3 pound package for $95 plus deposit of $7 bucks ish.  You get to drive in 30-50 miles each way from my area to pick them up so add on some fuel costs.  Basically you get 10,000 bees with a queen that has not yet shown the ability to overwinter in my climate.  No Brood, No honey/pollen stores, No frames, no organically drawn comb and probably raised in a southern dryer climate which is much different than my wet and soggy climate in the Pacific NW.  If your newbie that I was looking to ripoff had drawn comb to offer they would likely still see a fourth up to half their bees die off before the queen ever hatched her first cell in the new hive, start from foundation or frameless and you may loose a few more.

Call me stupid but I'd pay the extra $25 all day long and be back for more.  After working thru the numbers that way maybe $120 is too cheap.



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Jim 134
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« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2014, 08:35:40 PM »

   th_thumbsupup   goodpost

  I would sell mediums and deeps for the same price.I do realize it takes 8 mediums to make the same area as 5 deeps


             BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2014, 08:38:57 PM »

After working thru the numbers that way maybe $120 is too cheap.

 I would say $120-$130 is a good price for overwintered bees. Maybe you can offer delivery and hiving the bees for a few extra bucks. Say...$25 for a 30 mile trip, $50 for 30-50 mile trip...and so on.

 There are always a way to make extra cash. If you keep "working thru the numbers", your nucs will be $200 by next year  shocked
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« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2014, 08:44:48 PM »

Would you go with pickup only or is it possible to ship out of state.  Just thinking out loud.
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Thershey
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« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2014, 09:01:02 PM »

Would you go with pickup only or is it possible to ship out of state.  Just thinking out loud.

Probably just local for a couple reasons.  I'm purely a hobbyist at thus time....selling a few nucs would be to recoup a few bucks and since I will be breeding nucs as a method of swarm prevention, why not make my quality nucs available to some local beeks.  I also believe that there are some benefits to locally bred raised products. Bees, apples etc, I try to buy local whenever possible as a means to supporting my community.  Minuscule benefit but it all adds up in the end.
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Thershey
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« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2014, 09:05:40 PM »

After working thru the numbers that way maybe $120 is too cheap.

 I would say $120-$130 is a good price for overwintered bees. Maybe you can offer delivery and hiving the bees for a few extra bucks. Say...$25 for a 30 mile trip, $50 for 30-50 mile trip...and so on.

 There are always a way to make extra cash. If you keep "working thru the numbers", your nucs will be $200 by next year  shocked

True story Tiger.  As an avid outdoorsman I've been eating $100 per pound deer, elk and salmon all my life.  At least this hobby might half pay fir itself.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2014, 09:08:14 PM »

   As far as I know there is no major nuc supplier that sends nuc in the mail or ups FedEx and etc.

IMHO..

     You can build value into your nuc in the north if they are overwintered in the north and have northern raised queens.I do know a bee Company in New England that sells about 1500 nukes here a year and they come from Louisiana.What I'm trying to tell you need to know what you're buying.



         BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2014, 10:08:54 PM »

  As far as I know there is no major nuc supplier that sends nuc in the mail or ups FedEx and etc.

IMHO..

     You can build value into your nuc in the north if they are overwintered in the north and have northern raised queens.I do know a bee Company in New England that sells about 1500 nukes here a year and they come from Louisiana.What I'm trying to tell you need to know what you're buying.



         BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley

Totally agree Jim, the difference in locally bred bees is IMO a much larger issue than most people realize.  Here's a first hand account of why I feel that way. 

I bought my parent colony from a local guy that had been keeping this lineage for many years, he bred a new daughter every two or three years he said.  He said he had made plenty of mistakes but they always made it thru.  Here's a little story to illustrate how tough they turned out to be.

Last fall, I took off to go Elk hunting for two weeks in September.  My parent hive was strong and heavy, good stores, lots of brood, things were good.  Got home from my trip, wandered out to check on the girls...no act ivity on my strongest hive while the others were buzzing away.  Noticed a bunch of yellow hackers coming and going, oh oh.  Suited up and popped the lid.... total devastation, dead bees completely covered the screen board, not a single cell of brood nor a drop of honey.  There was one little cluster of bees that covered about 6 square inches on two faces of comb, maybe a cup, I was shocked to see the queen still alive. I figured they were dead for sure but I'd give them a chance to fight. I yanked the top box leaving them in a single deep, tossed a top feeder on with 2/1.  Hung up four yellow jacket traps filled with salmon and let nature take over.  This was late September, checked on them four weeks later, they were still kicking and had a couple hundred capped brood cells.  Temps were dropping so I pulled the unused syrup and filled both hoppers with drivert sugar and wrapped them with felt paper.  I also threw together a plastic house of sorts from old real estate signs to try and keep as much moisture away as possible. 

We had a tough winter for our area, several weeks in the teens and months of 30-40 and rain.  Today they are alive and building like crazy. Two weeks ago I gad 10 sq inches of capped brood, yesterday I had two full deep frames stuffed wall to wall under the rainbow.  Everyone told me I had no chance, not a prayer in the world that they would make it.  Not only did they make it, she's running neck and neck with hives that went into winter with a full boat.

I'd say multi generational over wintered bees matter, A LOT!
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Jim 134
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« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2014, 11:45:43 PM »

Something you may like to watch especially if you're northern beekeeper.

I do not know why I cannot re posts this link you can find it here on Reply#19

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,43897.msg378157.html#msg378157



             BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2014, 06:56:33 AM »

Would you go with pickup only or is it possible to ship out of state.  Just thinking out loud.

 I think the problem with shipping nucs is lack of ventilation and food as well as extra weight... plus all the shaking.
 Also bees in a box with a laying queen and larvae may be much more defensive making them scary for postal workers to handle.
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« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2014, 01:17:56 PM »

No way a 5 frame MED nuc will perform as well as a package... Ever...  And I will bet a lot of money on it.  Been testing they  "Theory" for years.  

A Med nuc by definition has 30% less brood food and bees than a Standard nuc....  so what your doing is charging an un-informed customer full price for 30% less......  most beginners just think nucs,  and don't know that a MED nuc is a lot less than a standard nuc......

 I am pretty sure you don't bother to tell them there getting 30% less than normal..... 

I would feel like a thief if I treated my customers like that........  and betting most here would feel cheated if they got home and found out they got charged premium prices for a smaller package.......

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« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2014, 02:46:00 PM »

No way a 5 frame MED nuc will perform as well as a package... Ever...  And I will bet a lot of money on it.  Been testing they  "Theory" for years.  

A Med nuc by definition has 30% less brood food and bees than a Standard nuc....  so what your doing is charging an un-informed customer full price for 30% less......  most beginners just think nucs,  and don't know that a MED nuc is a lot less than a standard nuc......

 I am pretty sure you don't bother to tell them there getting 30% less than normal..... 

I would feel like a thief if I treated my customers like that........  and betting most here would feel cheated if they got home and found out they got charged premium prices for a smaller package.......


I sell deeps and mediums and they tell me which one they want. So they know exactly what they are getting. Im pretty sure people are smart enough to look at my medium nucs next to the deep nucs and know they will be getting less bees. 
It comes down to supply and demand just like anything else that people sell.
It is alot harder to find medium nucs than it is to find deep nucs so there is a premium for medium nucs. Its basic buisness
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« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2014, 02:54:34 PM »

No way a 5 frame MED nuc will perform as well as a package... Ever...  And I will bet a lot of money on it.  Been testing they  "Theory" for years.  

A Med nuc by definition has 30% less brood food and bees than a Standard nuc....  so what your doing is charging an un-informed customer full price for 30% less......  most beginners just think nucs,  and don't know that a MED nuc is a lot less than a standard nuc......

 I am pretty sure you don't bother to tell them there getting 30% less than normal.....  

I would feel like a thief if I treated my customers like that........  and betting most here would feel cheated if they got home and found out they got charged premium prices for a smaller package.......



Hey genius, nobody claimed a medium Nuc would outperform a deep Nuc.  The comparison was a medium Nuc to a 3lb package which has no brood, none, zip, nada.  

Besides that, before you run in shooting your mouth off, why don't you start at the beginning of the post. I am not a large dealer, I'm a hobbyist and was talking about a few (6-10) nucs AND was asking the board what was fair.  I was asking advice not trying to hoodwink or screw anyone.  You know nothing about me or my ethics so as for you being "pretty sure I don't bother to tell anyone the difference," bite me ya shmuck.

People are discovering the value of one size, lighter, more flexible hives (props to Michael Bush), converting to mediums is a pain in the butt.  The entire reason for my contemplating offering mediums was to provide a service that might help others not have to go through what I am going through to convert to all medium depth equipment.  I could not find anyone in my area offering them.  

Trust me, in five years, if you manage to stay in business, you'll be offering medium nucs as an alternative because if you don't, your customers will be buying them from someone else in your area that has eyes open enough to see the shift in demand.

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« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2014, 03:54:46 PM »

No way a 5 frame MED nuc will perform as well as a package... Ever...  And I will bet a lot of money on it.  Been testing they  "Theory" for years.  

A Med nuc by definition has 30% less brood food and bees than a Standard nuc....  so what your doing is charging an un-informed customer full price for 30% less......  most beginners just think nucs,  and don't know that a MED nuc is a lot less than a standard nuc......

 I am pretty sure you don't bother to tell them there getting 30% less than normal.....  

I would feel like a thief if I treated my customers like that........  and betting most here would feel cheated if they got home and found out they got charged premium prices for a smaller package.......



Wow!

Big differences of opinions about packages v NUC's………..here's my own;  a package of bees, usually from Texas, Ga or Claifornia could hardly be considered a colony when received.  Its just a bunch of bees thrown together with an 'unfamiliar' queen.  The bees could be from several other colonies and the queen very likely has never shot an egg in her life….that is..she's 'un' tested.  That's a package of bees.

On the other hand, a NUC is an 'established' colony of bees, usually overwintered in your own region from a local queen….ideally.  The price difference is to be expected based on 'what' you get.  If you can afford it and you have a trusted Beek in the area selling them……I'd buy a NUC over a package that came from "who knows' where or under what conditions….any time…and have.  

I've found regional NUCS better survivors than packages, not worse.  I'm not sure where that opinion originates….but it sure hasn't been my experience…. Smiley and saw no difference in those in Deeps as opposed to mediums…..

HOW MUCH IS THE BET FOR?


Like most things we buy the price of a NUC will likely reflect what someone will pay for it…...
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« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2014, 05:36:10 PM »

gm charlie.
,he was not here to sell nucs, but with behavior and attacks on others with the language in his post it is his ticket out of here. For others who didn't notice before ,hersheys response above is just the kind of behavior we do not tolerate.
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« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2014, 08:14:10 PM »

Kens in the HOUSE!!!  grin
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« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2014, 06:22:11 AM »

Just for the record,
At the bottom right of every one of these threads is a report to moderator link that should be used rather than escalating to the next level.
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« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2014, 06:28:49 AM »

The mediums usually go for the same price.  The equipment costs the same and it's kind of a specialty market.  People who want mediums want them and it's worth the same price to have the bees on the frames you want rather than ones you don't want.
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« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2014, 08:00:19 AM »

The mediums usually go for the same price.  The equipment costs the same and it's kind of a specialty market.  People who want mediums want them and it's worth the same price to have the bees on the frames you want rather than ones you don't want.

I think MB is exactly right on this...I got interested in bees in late 2012, did my research, and decided to go all medium 8 frame equipment.  Built all my equipment and started hunting for bees...It was at that time that I realized that medium Nucs were hard to find, at least in my area.  At the end of MUCH MUCH research, I found two options here in Louisiana, one was about a 4 hour drive from me, and the other about an hour....each way. 

Before I found the closer option, I was seriously considering and working on options to get the Nucs that were 4 hours away...I had no interest in messing with trying to transfer deeps to my mediums.  I was thrilled to find Medium Nucs within an hours drive and didn't think twice about paying the same price as a deep Nuc.
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« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2014, 08:45:21 AM »

Exactly!  I couldn't AGREE more….
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« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2014, 10:52:18 AM »

Kens in the HOUSE!!!  grin


Good to see you Steve, it's been ages: hope all's well!!!
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« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2014, 11:31:52 AM »

The mediums usually go for the same price.  The equipment costs the same and it's kind of a specialty market.  People who want mediums want them and it's worth the same price to have the bees on the frames you want rather than ones you don't want.

I think MB is exactly right on this...I got interested in bees in late 2012, did my research, and decided to go all medium 8 frame equipment.  Built all my equipment and started hunting for bees...It was at that time that I realized that medium Nucs were hard to find, at least in my area.  At the end of MUCH MUCH research, I found two options here in Louisiana, one was about a 4 hour drive from me, and the other about an hour....each way.  

Before I found the closer option, I was seriously considering and working on options to get the Nucs that were 4 hours away...I had no interest in messing with trying to transfer deeps to my mediums.  I was thrilled to find Medium Nucs within an hours drive and didn't think twice about paying the same price as a deep Nuc.

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At is like I say before you can build value into your nuc


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