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Author Topic: Sundance Pollen trap- Top or bottom version  (Read 912 times)
Dimmsdale
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« on: March 03, 2014, 01:03:01 PM »

Anyone have any pros or cons?  I was thinking about trying one of these, but not sure if I should get the top or bottom mounting one.  I run bottom and upper entrances.  Get much more traffic at the bottom.
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sc-bee
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 01:51:14 PM »

J have had one for about 5 or more years and have never put it on a hive. Basically because I really don't know how to process and store the pollen for human consumption. I was going to start a thread about the processing of pollen for sale but hopefully you don't mind if I post it along with yours. If you do mind I will open another thread. (Actually I have asked the same questions several years and never get many replies).

As fro the trap obviously I can't tell you fist hand but when I was trying to choose a trap I choose the Sundance 2 because the pollen gathered is suppose to be cleaner. The bottom model Sundance they say is clean but the top mount it is said produces pollen you barely have to clean. That is the pro.

Con bees have to orient to a top entrance if they are used to the bottom one and it may take a while. Also they are a bit price all Sundance but it is said they are rivaled by none.
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Moots
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2014, 12:23:17 PM »

Dimms,
I have no experience with pollen gathering, but have been toying with the idea of giving it a try.  Part of what sparked my interest was looking at a Sundance II at the ABF conference in January, it appears to be extremely well made so I've been doing a little research on it since then.  I think SC hit the pros and cons pretty good...The top is cleaner pollen, as well as easier to put on and take off.

The negative being getting them oriented to the top entrance, also realize that you can't use a queen excluder if you use the top mounted Sundance.  I would think the fact that you already have a top entrance would help you some.  They seem to suggest that you give them some time to make the transition by partially closing the bottom entrance for a few days, then completely closing it off.  After using just the top entrance for several days or so, then place the top mounted Sundance trap on.
The other suggestion I've seen that seems to conflict with a lot of opinions is the practice of not removing on bypassing the trap every few days.   They claim the "on again, off again" approach stresses the bees more...Whereas if you leave it on, the bees will adjust their foraging to bring in enough pollen in spite of what the trap is collecting.

SC,
As for the processing, some refrigerate it and then dry it, while others simple freeze it and sell it that way.  Some think drying it makes the flavor "less pleasant", so I think freezing it sounds like the better/easier option...Unless there's a problem with that method that I haven't seen. Lastly, the consensus seems to be that daily collection is very important to avoid mold, pest and other problems.   If I remember correctly, they say a Sundance on a strong hive can bring in 1 1/2 to 2 pounds of pollen a day....That's pretty darn impressive! 
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edward
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 01:06:46 PM »

As for the processing, some refrigerate it and then dry it, while others simple freeze it and sell it that way.


A modification it is better to freeze it for at least 48hr to kill of undesirables

Also a food safety aspect  police

There are pollen collectors that you don't have to harvest every day, the pollen basket i well ventelated and out of the weather under the hive.

Traps on all season with drone escape on left and right side of the trap that i open and Close every time i harvest.

I empty my traps at least every five Days and freeze and dry late in the season when I have more time.

Similar to this one but with a Stainless steel basket http://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1674

The traps on front of a hive are in the weather and must bee emptied every day.

mvh Edward

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10framer
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2014, 01:20:40 PM »

i've never used this particular trap but did use on that required the bees to orient to a different opening.  once they had oriented to that opening we moved the trap where some bees could bypass it and the hive wasn't depleted of pollen.  the bees got some and we got some.  i would think that daily removal would be a good idea due to the small hive beetle.  seems like a big pile of un-guarded pollen would be pretty attractive to them.  we froze it in zip lock bags after we removed the debris (legs, wings etc.).
i wish i still had my old traps they hung from the front of the hive and were made of either galvanized steel or aluminum.  i've seen similar designs made of wood.  if i were choosing between a top and bottom design i'd probably choose the top but i have no real life experience with either.
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edward
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 01:26:47 PM »

There are pollen collectors that you don't have to harvest every day, the pollen basket i well ventelated and out of the weather under the hive.I empty my traps at least every five Days and freeze and dry late in the season when I have more time.

We don't have small hive beetle's  Wink
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10framer
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 01:55:11 PM »

i'm betting the o.p. has plenty.
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sterling
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 06:42:08 PM »

There are pollen collectors that you don't have to harvest every day, the pollen basket i well ventelated and out of the weather under the hive.I empty my traps at least every five Days and freeze and dry late in the season when I have more time.

We don't have small hive beetle's  Wink

You want some I'll have plenty here in a short while. grin
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ggileau
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 06:46:39 PM »

First off please understand that I am a novice at this as I just started to try collecting pollen late last summer. I have a Sundance II top trap and a Mann Lake superior bottom trap. Hands down the Mann Lake trap collected more pollen, it wasn't even close! It was also quite clean. That doesn't mean that I've given up on the Sundance. It is well built and well thought out. I actually purchased a second one. This season I'll make certain that the colonies that I use are well acclimated to a top entrance before I install them and I'll have two to compare as well. I really like the idea of collecting pollen from the top because it HAS to be cleaner although the Mann Lake trap did a fine job. I don't want to confuse the issue but maybe you could try one of each like I did and compare. The way I looked at it was if the bottom trap didn't provide me with the cleanest product I could always keep it to feed back when the they really needed it.  
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sc-bee
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 07:23:10 PM »

Hands down the Mann Lake trap collected more pollen, it wasn't even close!

I am not sure this is not by design. I think the Sundance may be designed where even in trapping mode they get some and you get some rather than stripping it all.
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ggileau
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 11:17:10 PM »

Hands down the Mann Lake trap collected more pollen, it wasn't even close!

I am not sure this is not by design. I think the Sundance may be designed where even in trapping mode they get some and you get some rather than stripping it all.

At least in this case I don't believe so. Even in non trapping mode I would collect far more pollen with the Mann Lake trap. There seemed to be far less confusion at the entrance and there always was enough pollen stored for themselves. As I've said, I am far from giving up on the Sundance trap. I think there is a good chance that the colony that I chose didn't like it even though they were used to an upper entrance. It's hard to explain but it's like they couldn't find their way back into the hive, they were just confused while the hive with the Mann Lake trap just went about their business. I hope I'm correct in believing the Sundance trap because I now have a couple of them. I guess only time will tell.
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Moots
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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2014, 07:36:28 AM »


At least in this case I don't believe so. Even in non trapping mode I would collect far more pollen with the Mann Lake trap...

** emphasis added

ggileau,
Question, So...The Sundance II (Top mounted) trap does have a non-trapping mode.  huh
How does it work, I was beginning to think it doesn't and that it had to simply be removed when you didn't want to collect....What am I missing?
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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ggileau
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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2014, 08:40:55 AM »


At least in this case I don't believe so. Even in non trapping mode I would collect far more pollen with the Mann Lake trap...

** emphasis added

ggileau,
Question, So...The Sundance II (Top mounted) trap does have a non-trapping mode.  huh
How does it work, I was beginning to think it doesn't and that it had to simply be removed when you didn't want to collect....What am I missing?

I was tired last night and didn't explain well. I meant that when the Mann Lake Trap was in non trap it still out performed the Sundance.

By the way Moots, I like and agree with your signature.
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"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
Moots
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2014, 03:45:34 PM »


I was tired last night and didn't explain well. I meant that when the Mann Lake Trap was in non trap it still out performed the Sundance.

By the way Moots, I like and agree with your signature.

ggileau,
If your Mann Lake trap in bypass mode was collecting more pollen than the Sundance in collection mode, I would say that both the Mann Lake and Sundance traps had a serious problem.  laugh laugh laugh

Am I correct in thinking that the Sundance top mount doesn't have a bypass and one simply removes it when they don't want to collect.  huh

Also, thanks for the props on the signature...This country sure could use another Reagan about now...but that's a topic better left for the Coffee House.  grin
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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alfred
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2014, 07:06:47 PM »

I have the top mount version. I love it so much I bought several more. Very easy to use.

I just freeze what I collect. When I sell it I tell folks that they need to keep it frozen or at least refrigerated.

This time of year I make patties of pollen and just enough honey to hold it together and feed it back to the bees.

Alfred
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2014, 10:03:23 PM »

It's best to have a top trap if you have the bees used to a top entrance or a bottom trap if they are used to a bottom entrance.  Retraining them to a a particular entrance at the same time as training them to a trap is virtually impossible.  You could also look at it the other way around.  If you want a top trap (which will get you cleaner pollen, cost less and is easier to put on and take off) then you want them using a top entrance BEFORE you put it on.
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Michael Bush
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