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Author Topic: Split Hives and why  (Read 1810 times)
GSF
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« on: March 02, 2014, 09:52:20 PM »

I split my hive three ways today. I have all three splits side by side. I had two 8f deeps and one 8f medium partially filled out. I went through the hive twice and could not find the queen. Realizing that that don't really mean yea or nay. As far as brood; I saw about 3 good frames of capped brood and a few with different size larva with some frames have a few capped brood. Mostly what I saw was backfilled with pollen and nectar. I also saw several, as in probably six queen cells. Another queen cell had been ripped and another one I'm not sure. I looked for eggs with the sun to my back. Didn't see any but never really have.

Have I really solved anything by splitting? Rookie mistake? Seems like I remember reading something about feeding 1:1 was best for comb building and 2:1 was best for food. Here are some pictures. Let me know your thoughts. Have I mistook a drone cell for a queen cell? I've seen emergency q cells but this is my first q cells. Last inspection I thought I had a q cell. I ask an older gentleman not far from me and he seem to think I still had a long time, and if it was the queen would get rid of it before it hatched.

I wanted to add pictures but I don't see that option for some reason.
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John Wayne
bud1
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 07:05:28 AM »

you travling a little fast; the Louisiana boys have yet to se a queen cell  and talked with both shawee and jp yesterday
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sc-bee
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 07:47:07 AM »

you travling a little fast; the Louisiana boys have yet to se a queen cell  and talked with both shawee and jp yesterday

May need a translator for bud Smiley  lau Eye shoooo u can reat tween da lions ---- did that cover it bud Smiley

Yea think you missed this one GSF. Do you have drones? No drones no mating. What you probably saw: drone cells or anticipation cell or what I call pop cells. Not a queen cell till it has a larvae or egg in it. And three brood frames split three ways ..... mighty thin in my book. IMO I would put it back together quickly if you just split it. Someone else will pipe in but I believe less than 48 hrs old (splits) no problem in the other pieces accepting the old queen again.


« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 08:30:59 AM by sc-bee » Logged

John 3:16
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2014, 08:31:58 AM »

guys, he sent me pictures and there are some queen cells and one appears to have a hinged cap.  i can't find any drones in the pictures.  i'm not sure what he has going on because he says he has open brood. 
i'm a couple hours due east of him and i'm only starting to find capped drone brood in my hives.  i've been trying to calculate when i can have my first round of queens ready and it's looking like late april at best.
the amount of brood he's describing in a hive that size sounds a little light.  maybe the bees are trying to replace the old queen, i just don't know.
gary, i think you split them too early.  without being there i can't say for sure, though. 
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HomeSteadDreamer
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2014, 11:31:47 AM »

Well Alabama is a big state so central is north of my latitude but I've got lots of capped brood and capped drones, open larva, eggs.  Maybe he didn't get as cold.  But being in the middle of Alabama I'd think he'd be behind us here in north florida.
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10framer
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2014, 11:41:03 AM »

homestead that's what i'd think too but i had a guy in talladega tell me he had drones a few weeks ago.  now i don't know the guy from adam so he could have been blowing smoke but i can't imagine why.  
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sc-bee
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2014, 02:04:23 PM »

 I am on the boat too little brood for him to split deal also and I am not sure they would try to supercede without drones this time of year. But surely may be possible I guess. I usually just find a queenless hive this time of year. Maybe someone else has had this to happen, supercedure this time of year, with the same conditions?

What about what to do with what he has left. IMO I would still put it back together. May have to be a newspaper combine the longer you wait.

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John 3:16
10framer
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2014, 02:52:15 PM »

i'd put it back together today before the cold front comes through and chills the brood. 
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sc-bee
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2014, 03:06:33 PM »

i'd put it back together today before the cold front comes through and chills the brood. 

Wit u on that one......
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John 3:16
buzzbee
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2014, 04:16:08 PM »

GSF,
to post photos you need to host them somewhere like
 www.imageshack.com
  or
 www.postimage.org
and put the links in your post. Or you can always send the to
photos@beemaster.com
and let the mods know what post you would like them attached to.
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bud1
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2014, 05:14:11 PM »

bout it steve you gona have yo carcass here in april
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Joe D
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2014, 05:42:30 PM »

I'm about 80 miles north of the gulf, and I have lots of brood, workers and drones.  Checked some hives yesterday, no queen cells, but lots of brood.  One hive had moved up, I left some supers on.  It had 1 deep with not much of anything in it.  Next is a medium it had close to 8 frames of brood, then there were 2 shallows.  The bottom one had six frames of brood, and the top one had 5.  Those 3 supers also had honey and pollen.  This hive is loaded with bees also, and these are 10 frame hives.  Good luck to you all.




Joe
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GSF
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2014, 07:13:29 PM »

I've been seeing lots (?) of drones. A week ago I saw around 10 enter and leave the hive in about 15 minutes.  I may have missed this one but after seeing all those q cells, cells backfilled with pollen and sugar water, the small amount of brood, I figured it was probably risky either way. Well, it's 35 right now and breezy. Should I put them back together now? We have some blankets around them. The big split with the most bees have an 8f deep and an 8f medium. The other two are 8f mediums. There seems to be a lot of bees in all three. Let me know.





https://imageshack.com/i/0mcdyqj

https://imageshack.com/i/mwlg2aj

https://imageshack.com/i/e9jfddj

https://imageshack.com/i/0xgrm1j

Added photo links from a later post (Buzzbee)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 08:07:28 AM by buzzbee » Logged

"Life is hard, It's even harder when you're stupid."

John Wayne
10framer
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2014, 08:18:57 PM »

if it's already that cold i'd leave them alone. 
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GSF
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2014, 09:15:57 PM »

Yeah I got to thinking about that and had decided not to go that route. I had to jump off the internet and do some more remodeling work. As I was working I was re-thinking about what I had done and more so, why I had done it. I remember considering the cold weather to come. It was my assessment that the bees were plentiful enough to keep it warm. Time will tell. Also each hive was divided almost equal when it came to brood, pollen, and sugar water honey. I staged the honey/pollen/empty frames on the outside of the brood nest. From my limited experience (My bee keeping experience still rides the short bus to school) I'd say the worse that will happen is I will loose the two smaller splits. The best that will happen is I will have three new colonies.

It's given me a sick feeling thinking this may have been a big mistake. I'd hate to know I've brought harm to my bees.  Then again, this is pretty much new to me. I've never had to make this decision before so I have nothing to draw on. I've encountered losses with almost everything new in the animal/plant kingdom.

Thanks again for everyone's honest, frank, and up front answers. I hope you all wrong grin   and I'm right grin grin


modified (additional comment) I made sure I put at least one capped queen cell in each hive. I said 8f mediums, I should have said 8f deeps. Sincerely folks, thanks for your honest opinion.
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"Life is hard, It's even harder when you're stupid."

John Wayne
10framer
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2014, 09:32:33 PM »

if they didn't fly much today and you split them fairly evenly you may be ok.  if most of the bees went back to the original location then the brood in the other two may get chilled.  ray is pretty far north of us and has bees ready to swarm so you never know. 
last year the clover in butler ran a few weeks behind the clover in phenix city so i may be in an odd geographic pocket out there.
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sc-bee
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2014, 10:05:46 PM »

If you indeed have a cell in all three splits and drones you may indeed come out smelling like a rose and egg on our face  grin I indeed hope so th_thumbsupup
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John 3:16
capt44
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2014, 11:21:01 PM »

When I make a split I usually don't look for the queen.
I just wait 5 hours or so and listen to see which hives are loud and which ones are quiet.
A queenless hive will be louder most of the time.
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Richard Vardaman (capt44)
johng
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2014, 07:48:45 PM »

If you saw drones before you split you should be ok. Its supposed to be nice again by this weekend. Early splits are always at the mercy of the spring weather. I've got virgins that need to mate next week too so I'm pulling for ya. LOL
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GSF
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2014, 09:08:52 PM »

Hey Capt, All three of mine have bee fairly quite. It seems I remember reading if a hive was queenless but had a capped queen cell they didn't consider themselves queenless. I got home before dark and walked out to the hives. I stuck my finger on the landing board by the entrances. On the two smaller hives immediately I had a guard bee trying to sting or chase my finger off. The middle hive was just humming along. My guess is if the queen is still there she's in the middle one.

Thanks for the rooting johng. I plan to keep everyone posted. I've been concerned about the mating flight. I hope the weather's in our favor.
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"Life is hard, It's even harder when you're stupid."

John Wayne
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