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Author Topic: Beekeeping Ethics  (Read 2842 times)

Offline Edgy

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Beekeeping Ethics
« on: February 16, 2014, 08:53:31 PM »
We had a new neighbor move in next door late last summer and he had a hive with him.  He's kept to himself except for the other day.  Being winter time my swarm traps that I leave in the trees on my property are seen by anyone looking up.  He came over asking me to take them down. That I'd be stealing his bees if they swarm!  I told him I have had them up since before he moved in.  They have been up for 3 yrs.  He was still insistent that they come down.  My question is what would you do if similar happened to you?  And is there a minimum distance to keep swarm traps away from other beekeepers' hives?  Trying to be a good neighbor.  Thanks for your input, Chris 

Offline rober

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2014, 09:11:49 PM »
do you have bees at this location? you are certainly entitled to capture your own swarms. advise him to hang some traps of his own & to locate his hives as far from your property as possible since HE is so concerned. as often as not swarms settle within 100' of the hive that they left.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 01:54:25 PM by rober »

Offline Joe D

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2014, 09:21:03 PM »
He doesn't sound like a good neighbor, so I would tell him, if you let your bees swarm and they come on to my property they are fair game.  Unless he is trying to catch them.  Last year I had a swarm take off, I followed them for a couple hundred yards.  they were over the tree tops and headed for the swamp, just figured they were gone.  I can't see where he gets off, he could have been a lots nicer if wanting any kind of concessions from you.  Good luck to you and your bees      and that neighbor.




Joe

Offline Vance G

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2014, 09:35:17 PM »
Here in Montana where we have a rope, a gun and a fill in the blank constitution, just stand your ground.  You have the right to enjoy your trees and your property and tell him as much.  As the former responder suggested, tell him he should work on swarm control.  Then walk away and never discuss it again.  If he starts just walk away. 

Offline Redbug

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2014, 09:38:44 PM »
Durn...If the traps are on your land, I think that's your business. If you have had them there before he came along and he says that...I think he is wayyy out there.

I see this just like deer hunting and having a deer stand on your property. The neighbor hunts, too. Deer do not belong to anybody, they are a free roaming wild animal. But the neighbor wants you to remove your stand since it affects the deer coming to his property.

And, if you have bees at your place...you can throw it back in his face and tell him to remove his bees since they are competing with the same food sources your bees need, just to see how he reacts to that angle. People like that ain't no friends of mine. I just can't believe the gall of some people...
Dave

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Offline iddee

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 09:47:36 PM »
I had an old parts car with weeds growing all around it. A guy bought down the street and built a new house. He then went to the city and the police asked me to get rid of it because the neighbor thought it made the neighborhood look bad. I told the chief it was there when the guy bought the land.If he didn't like the neighborhood, he should have bought elsewhere. My car was there first. My car stayed.

Tell the guy if he didn't like what was there, he shouldn't have moved there. He don't come in and try to change the neighborhood. If you don't, he will be finding other things for you to change.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline GSF

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 10:38:43 PM »
Tell him, "Yeah I'll move it, but next year I'm planting cotton and am gonna spray the H*&# out of it and he better not say anything."

Naw, not really. Be nice. Just tell him to kiss your gas hole.

or tell him ever since your bees died of American Foul Brood you've been trying to raise more but they all keep dying for some reason.
"Life is hard, It's even harder when you're stupid."

John Wayne

Offline capt44

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 10:53:31 PM »
Here in Arkansas it can be a little different.
Here you are by state law to register your hives with the Arkansas Apiary Board.
Failure to do so is a misdemeanor offense.
But of course they don't push the law but it's there.
I'd just tell him to worry about what he has on his land and don't worry about what I do on mine.
Bees will cover on an average of around 8,000 acres so is he going to tell everybody in that area what to do?
Like I told a preacher feller one time, You're fixin' to wake up something you don't even want to see, so I'd advise you to get you bible tot'n uh behind on down the road.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline 10framer

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2014, 11:02:38 PM »
the sense of entitlement that a lot of people have amazes me.  sorry to hear about your new neighbor.

Offline ugcheleuce

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2014, 05:43:17 AM »
Being winter time my swarm traps that I leave in the trees on my property are seen by anyone looking up.  He came over asking me to take them down. That I'd be stealing his bees if they swarm!

If those traps were not in the vicinity of your own hives, then I would have said that he's got a point.  Putting up traps close to another beekeeper's hives means stealing his swarms.  But at the same time you have to be a prudent beekeeper yourself and try to catch the swarms that issue from your own hives.  For that reason I think it should be okay for you to have traps near his hives if you have the traps nearer to your own hives.

Say, are your traps baited with pheromones?

I think it is a beekeeper's responsibility to ensure that his hives don't swarm (if he doesn't want them to swarm), or to be present at the hives when they swarm (if he wants them to swarm).

The murkier question is what happens when one of his hives swarm and you catch the swarm.  It depends on local law, but hereabouts the rule is that the swarm belongs to the beekeeper whose hive the swarm had obviously issued from, if that information is reasonably known.

Where I live, this means that when you're called out to a swarm that was reported by the public, you have to try and figure out (by e.g. asking the neighbours) if anyone in the vicinity keeps bees, and if so, then the question is whether the swarm is theirs (and if so, then they have to catch the swarm, and if they don't want to, it means that they abandon their claim to the swarm).  The swarming rules in our region are not applied as strictly as they were in the past, because at the time when the rules were written, swarming was a normal part of beekeeping, but these days most local beekeepers try to avoid swarming by making artificial swarms.

Quote
Trying to be a good neighbor.

Well, if you are in a compromising mood, try to find out how his queen is marked, see if you can (re-)mark your queens differently, and tell him that if there is a swarm, he can have it if the queen is unmarked or if it turns out to be his queen.  It would also be a good idea to make sure he keeps a close watch on his hive so that you know that he will know for certain whether his hive had actually swarmed.
--
Samuel Murray, Ugchelen, Netherlands
6 hives in 3 locations (4 x Buckfast F2++, 2 x Ligustica F1+)

Offline GSF

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2014, 05:49:53 AM »
If this guy was someone I knew, and a decent person, I'd gladly give him his swarm back. I would feel good helping a friend out. However this is different. My time is worth something and my traps cost something to construct. He would have to prove they were his bee's and pay me for my time and effort since he's a snot. Aren't feral swarms attracted to bee yards?
"Life is hard, It's even harder when you're stupid."

John Wayne

Offline RC

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2014, 08:28:55 AM »
I'd hang a no trespassing sign on the property line. I would tell him it applies to him as well as his bees.Then, if his bees cross the property line, you're just apprehending lawbreakers.
Seriously, if the traps are on your property, he has no business telling you to take them down. If he has swarm traps, he is as likely to catch your swarms, as you are his.
Don't let him start intimidating you now, or he'll never stop.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2014, 11:28:13 AM »
I think he is under the misunderstanding that the traps will cause the bees to swarm.  They won't.  Or that they will keep him from catching his swarms.  He can still catch them and put them in his hives, but if he doesn't why should he care if they end up in your hive instead of the trees?  I think he just doesn't understand how this affects his bees, which is not at all.
Michael Bush
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Offline Jacobs

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2014, 11:39:16 AM »
I don't know what your State law and local ordinances say.  My understanding of English Common Law as brought forth in North Carolina is that if honey bees swarm and remain in sight of the "owning" beekeeper as he or she seeks to recover them they remain his or her property.  They may have problems with trespass if they go on the land of another without permission to retrieve the swarm.  If the swarm leaves the "owners" property without the "owner" keeping in contact with the swarm, they become the property of the person who retrieves them.

I have bees in the city and my next door neighbor is a friend and fellow beekeeper.  He retrieved a swarm a couple of seasons ago that came out of one of my hives and went to another neighbors yard.  I was out of town at the time.  He was welcome to it.  I have had a few swarms go into his yard and he called me to let me know they were there and that I should come collect them.  At times, I wish he would have taken them and have told him so.  Make peace if you can, but determine whether your State, county, or city have bee regulating statutes or ordinances, and IF you are in a development, if there are restrictive covenants or neighborhood association rules that could cause trouble in an open dispute.  If you do have to go into battle, it doesn't hurt to have scouted the battle ground.

Offline edward

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2014, 11:39:53 AM »
Swarm traps ??  :roll:

Thouse are my birdhouses !  :-D

mvh Edward  :-P

Offline edward

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2014, 11:56:54 AM »
He should take care and look after his bees so they don't swarm!

In an urban area it is a real nuisance for everybody accept for bee keepers!

He is a BAD beekeeper!

He is kind of rude demanding you change your ways, you were there first.

In the next 5 years the county is going to build on a forest meadow behind my house, It will bee a Cold day in  :evil: beefore I move my hives from my yard!  :jerry: :jerry: :brian: :jerry: :jerry:

I'm sick and tired of putting up with other peoples crap, my house my rules and I'll do what I want, when I want, If I want!


mvh Edward  :-P

Online kathyp

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2014, 11:58:51 AM »
Quote
Thouse are my birdhouses !

you crack me up  :-)

i think MB has it. i have run into this misinformation also.  people think that swarm traps entice hives to swarm rather than just giving the swarm a place to go.  
as for stealing bees...unless he sees them swarm, how would they know they were his bees.  if you didn't have the swarm traps up and the bees swarmed, what would he do?  

personally, i'd take them down.  then i'd assist him in inserting them....oops  :jail:...family friendly....you get the idea.....
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Jim 134

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2014, 12:28:57 PM »
I think he is under the misunderstanding that the traps will cause the bees to swarm.  They won't.  Or that they will keep him from catching his swarms.  He can still catch them and put them in his hives, but if he doesn't why should he care if they end up in your hive instead of the trees?  I think he just doesn't understand how this affects his bees, which is not at all.


I would like to know if he is going to give back your swarms that going to his yard hahaha

you do realize the beekeeper needs to be in hot pursuit to claim that their his or hers





              BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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Offline Oblio13

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2014, 01:58:21 PM »
I bend over backwards to stay on good terms with my neighbors because, well, I might have to live near them.

I think trying to educate him in a friendly manner is the most appropriate first step. Go over there with a housewarming present, tell him you've been thinking about what he said, and initiate the conversation. If it doesn't work, at least you tried and your conscience will be clear.

Offline Redbug

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Re: Beekeeping Ethics
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2014, 05:43:41 PM »
Just remember..."To forgive easily invites offense".
 
Dave

"If your sport does not put grease, blood, or dirt under your fingernails, then it's just a game!"

 

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