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Author Topic: executive order 13603  (Read 835 times)
10framer
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« on: February 05, 2014, 09:51:28 PM »

google it and tell me what you think.  it gives the government the ability to take complete control of just about anything if a national emergency is declared.  water, food, fertilizer, farm equipment (mentioned more than once, that's particularly interesting), just about anything.
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2014, 10:01:40 PM »

the authority has existed, in theory, for a very long time.  it had never been spelled out like this.  it was one of the emergency (war) powers of the president through the defense department.

one might wonder why this president felt the need to sign an executive order detailing what he could do.....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 07:03:18 AM »

Agreed; this authority has existed in one form or another since our founding……nothing new here. 

If you're the one experiencing the 'emergency' you might think the authority to intervene is perhaps…a good thing?  Just saying. 

How many of us were questioning this authority when Bush was the Prez?  Knowing the answer to that could be very telling….
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iddee
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2014, 09:41:30 AM »

That is so old and so simple it isn't worth mentioning. Even a local cop can commandeer your car and take it on a high speed chase if needed. Nothing new here at all.

Him needing to sign an executive order for it is new, and very suspicious looking.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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T Beek
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2014, 09:49:38 AM »

That is so old and so simple it isn't worth mentioning. Even a local cop can commandeer your car and take it on a high speed chase if needed. Nothing new here at all.

Him needing to sign an executive order for it is new, and very suspicious looking.

Agreed;  Executive power has reached its outer limits  Wink (we allowed it to become this way).  Its always been suspicious looking, and especially sinister once when we discover the real beneficiaries of whatever action is 'really' intended. 

Todays Washington Journal on C-SPAN had one of the most informative interviews on this subject I've ever witnessed.  They usually re-broadcast it, sometimes twice a day so watch for it.  Very informative with 'all' sides represented.
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2014, 09:58:12 AM »

it's been a curiosity that congress has been so willing to cede power to both the executive and courts.  the power to legislate resides completely in the congress, yet they have stood by as both presidents and courts have done their job. 

as for bush, there were things that he did that i did not like, but there was nothing specifically related to this, that he did alone, that caused me pause. 

executive action has it's place.  if you look back at the most damaging executive orders, they were done outside congress.  one that is a fantastic example and gives people a twitch, is the emancipation proclamation.  it might be the reason Obama call Lincoln his muse...and not because he freed the slaves  evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
10framer
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 10:18:34 AM »

tbeek, a couple of threads back you made a statement about the media trying to widen the divide in this nation but throwing bush up in this seems designed to do the same thing, i didn't mention obama when i brought this up.  this will outlast the current administration so it really doesn't matter who defines what will no longer be mine when they decide to take it.
i agree with kathy, the authority has always been there in some form but it is now detailed and rubber stamped.  our government sure seems to be setting the stage for grabbing a lot more control these days.  
i need to start looking over the farm bill, i heard something on the news yesterday that threw up a red flag and i want to look into it a little closer.  it had something to do with labeling and it sounded like it could make things hard on small farmers.  
  
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T Beek
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 02:42:20 PM »

tbeek, a couple of threads back you made a statement about the media trying to widen the divide in this nation but throwing bush up in this seems designed to do the same thing, i didn't mention obama when i brought this up.  this will outlast the current administration so it really doesn't matter who defines what will no longer be mine when they decide to take it.
i agree with kathy, the authority has always been there in some form but it is now detailed and rubber stamped.  our government sure seems to be setting the stage for grabbing a lot more control these days.  
i need to start looking over the farm bill, i heard something on the news yesterday that threw up a red flag and i want to look into it a little closer.  it had something to do with labeling and it sounded like it could make things hard on small farmers.  
  

Please, I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy that is apparent and obvious to anyone, regardless of who's in the WH.  Its undeniable that its gotten worse under Obama.  So please don't turn it into something else and then pass the blame onto me. 

If you had read my comments more closely you'd notice that no one is exempted from the accountability I've 'redundantly' attempted to address on many occasions.  I make it a point to criticize and scrutinize anyone and everyone who decides they want any 'elected' position regardless of their party affiliation …….I have none…unless we're speaking of the party of the living  Smiley

I REPEAT; 'WE' ARE THE GOVERNMENT!  If you/we want something else…...WORK FOR IT!….TAKE PART IN THE SOLUTIONS…BE INFORMED….CONTACT YOUR REPS WEEKLY (that is the minimum any concerned citizen should be doing……...but doesn't).

…………..that my friend, is OUR job……. Wink
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 08:53:30 PM »

One of the comments I've heard about this aka Defense Authorization Act, is about Marshal Law. What supposedly is different is who can have Marshal Law Declared and what for. From what I've read that others have said (whew) is that any little doodad mayor can have marshal declared over not much of anything. It could be a good thing or a bad thing.

Go to Youtube  and search Katrina/marshal law/NRA. The NRA interviewed several folks who were just having a conversation with the authorities. When they were asked about having weapons of course they all said yes. At that point they were drawn on and demanded to have their weapons handed over. One was a female Baptist minister the other was a very old lady. The rest were just good ol boys. Make sure the videos on youtube were posted by the NRA.
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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2014, 10:04:52 PM »

yeah, and they had no system for tagging what they took so some people never got their stuff back.  that was a heck of a mess and it started right there in NO.  i have been down there for disasters a couple of times and it rivals Chicago for corruption.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2014, 10:48:14 AM »

yeah, and they had no system for tagging what they took so some people never got their stuff back.  that was a heck of a mess and it started right there in NO.  i have been down there for disasters a couple of times and it rivals Chicago for corruption.

wait what our New Orleans? Nah just kidding yeah we are pretty corrupt down there. As we speak the mayor at the time of Katrina Ray Nagin  is on trial for corruption. He will be in jail in the next few months for a pretty good time.

The book " The great New Orleans gun grab" details the actions the police took during Katrina. the police went door to door asking how you are with the false pretense of checking on the residents. as they were leaving an officer would joke "you do have a gun to protect yourself right" if you answered yes they would immediately begin searching for the weapon and confiscate it. Leaving the citizen defenseless at night when the police would not patrol due to violence. The animals of NOLA would watch the police take the weapon and loot and rob the person at night. It was truly one of the worst violations of ones right ever witnessed. To this day most never retrieved the guns that were taken. There was one neighborhood that is home to Jewish residents very wealthy they had the Israeli special forces flown in and stood armed guard at all houses and entrances to the neighbor hood. Strangely the NOPD never took their guns....

Keith
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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2014, 11:17:36 AM »

sorry Keith  grin  but honestly, the last time i was down there a couple of years ago, i ended up leaving early because i couldn't get anything done.  i love the individual people down there, but the corruption is institutionalize!  when the local red cross is handing stuff out to people who were not impacted by the disaster, sort of like handing out party favors....it's time to throw in the towel. 

if i never hear the name Burchard again, it will be to soon!   evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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