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Author Topic: Zeitgeist the Movie (parts 1, 2, 3)  (Read 1013 times)
T Beek
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« on: January 30, 2014, 09:02:15 AM »

All three films are available FREE over the internet.  Again, some may not bother because 'I'm' recommending them  Wink, but I encourage everyone to check them out for some explanations and insights that may be uncomfortable to accept.  And that's OK…..
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2014, 10:43:55 AM »

I have watched all 3. Good information distilled in an entertaining package. What's not to like? Oh yea.....that bit about religion. Oh well it was mostly good. cool
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T Beek
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2014, 11:13:38 AM »

As for the religion aspect, I found it more than fascinating to discover dozens of "SUN GODS" or sons of God who existed long before the birth of Jesus Christ.  All with similar or nearly identical lives and attributes and with considerably more written about them than JC;  Born of a virgin, dies and/or was crucified and rose three days later, miracles performed galore, etc….I've since researched this topic quite a bit and found many such descriptions of messiahs in our past. 

The similarities to PAGAN Gods before Rome's embracement of Christianity is extraordinary, as is the recognition of natural movements and events of the universe, like our winter solstice being our shortest day (the Sun has died) only to resurrect three days later (the days grow longer).  Truly fascinating IMO.

Makes my reading of the bible more like a study in astronomy sometimes.  It it has had no effect on my affection for JC.


hjon71; you might find the site 'the zeitgeist movement' (TZM) informative.  No relation to the films, but full of extraordinarily intelligent folks working for a different kind of future.
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 12:09:20 AM »

I agree it is interesting. The similarity is astonishing really. But I find it doesn't hinder my faith at all because I know false prophets have existed and will continue to pop up from time to time. I am reminded of these words of Gamaliel:

Acts 5
 33 When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death. 34 But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35 Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36 Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

Christianity persists today. I ask, where are the followers of these other "Sons of God"?
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hjon71
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 12:18:21 AM »

As for the Zeitgeist Movement, I like alot of what they propose. But I cannot align myself with a group opposed to God. I will not give up my belief to gain favor among men. Simple as that.
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T Beek
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2014, 05:09:28 AM »

Personally I believe 'all' human activity comes from God.  Whether some people exist to show us 'the way' or to show us the 'NON' way (HYOKAS) is entirely up to us as FREE individuals.  IMO; Its the FREE part that has our whole species so messed up, because our system has twisted its definition.  Without this twist (a lie), more people would recognize the truth of our collective circumstances.

Paganism has seen a resurgence in recent years, I suspect that's where one would find such followers of Sun Gods.  A Sun God was likely humanities first deity and people around the globe still worship the Sun. 

I've not seen much evidence that the TZM is against religious belief per say, some members perhaps, but not a stated position.   I like the group because of its memberships level of intelligence and desire for deep thought.
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2014, 09:15:23 AM »

Quote

Paganism has seen a resurgence in recent years, I suspect that's where one would find such followers of Sun Gods.  A Sun God was likely humanities first deity and people around the globe still worship the Sun. 

I mean as an organized religion with some bearing upon society. Paganism was well defined in the Bible. I do not however believe paganism supersedes the belief of the Creator God in Genesis.

Quote
I've not seen much evidence that the TZM is against religious belief per say, some members perhaps, but not a stated position.   I like the group because of its memberships level of intelligence and desire for deep thought.

I have no experience with the group other than reading some material.
 The movie was, for me, pretty clear on God doesn't exist and Jesus is merely a story to control the masses. While I agree religion is often used to control thoughts and actions of the mentally weak, that is a product of evil men not God.

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T Beek
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2014, 11:01:14 AM »

The fact that JC is used to manipulate people isn't debatable IMO.  The examples are plentiful.  At last count there were over 500 separate sects of Christianity, surely some of them are nothing more than covers for charlatans.  His primary messages are often ignored, distorted and/or corrupted to fit some scam.  None can say we weren't warned.

It is most disheartening and shameful, but Christianity is hardly the only 'recognized' religion to suffer at the hands of unscrupulous leaders, be they from Church's, Temple's, Sweat Lodge's or Mosque's.

Actually, Paganism is what many early 'organized' religions were based on, including Christianity.  It is a 'nature' based belief system and has likely been evolving since the first humans began forming self-awareness.   Somebody looking up to the sky and simply wondering, feeling awe and possibly drawing conclusions based on knowledge and experience.  And I believe paganism was mostly 'suppressed' in the Bible.

I believe Paganism is very old indeed, largely disorganized and leaderless, taking many different forms, is widely accepted and practiced (though not openly as paganism) in many cultures and societies in its many different forms around the world.  All it takes is a reverence for all life and the universe we share, along with the recognition of our unique human experience and our responsibility as stewards to our Planet.  Doesn't sound so bad to me.  The world could use more Pagans IMO.  Smiley  

WWJD?  I think he'd be a Pagan……... Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 09:06:02 PM »

I pretty sure he was a Jew grin
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T Beek
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2014, 05:25:14 AM »

I pretty sure he was a Jew grin

A Jew who advocated the tearing down of Temples, who severely admonished the money changers, who cared for the less fortunate ………….That's my JC!! Smiley
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2014, 05:50:02 AM »

Quote

A Jew who advocated the tearing down of Temples, who severely admonished the money changers, who cared for the less fortunate ………….That's my JC!! Smiley

Quite a leap from Jew to Pagan.  You go ahead though if it suits you. I'll hang w/Jesus.
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T Beek
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2014, 06:16:52 AM »

Sorry but it seems you're not comprehending my words or their intent.   I walk with JC 24/7.  I have a WWJD? tattoo as a reminder.

Seems the 'word' of JC is not seriously regarded these days at all.  I don't believe there are as many 'true follows' of JC as we have been led to believe, they are in fact a small minority of the 'self-proclaimed' Christians we see and hear.  

All we need do is look around at the world.  I 'do' believe JC was uniquely in tune with the 'natural' world, and successfully presented the reasons for equality and the responsibilities of mankind, hence my sincere belief that he could be 'considered' pagan in scope.  Not that he was, only that he often embraced many of the same rationals through his teachings, minus the various other Gods 'some' pagans worshipped of course.  Pagans believe (d) in the ONEness of everything, not so far from JC.

IMO; That belief (just mine now, not trying to force it on anyone) takes nothing away from his message, only opens the door to the 'complexities' of the man IMO.  

Thanks for your willingness to engage in this discussion  Smiley  It is greatly appreciated.
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« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2014, 08:29:03 AM »

I do suspect our difficulty lies in how Pagan is defined.
Pagan- Date: 14th century 1 : HEATHEN 1 ; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome) 2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person

None of that describes Jesus to me. Perhaps your definition is in error, and you really mean something else.  I dunno  I enjoy an honest discussion as well.
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T Beek
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« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2014, 08:54:56 AM »

I do suspect our difficulty lies in how Pagan is defined.
Pagan- Date: 14th century 1 : HEATHEN 1 ; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome) 2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person

None of that describes Jesus to me. Perhaps your definition is in error, and you really mean something else.  I dunno  I enjoy an honest discussion as well.

You think so?   laugh  I don't think my definition or what I believe makes someone a pagan is the issue TBH  Smiley.  There are likely as many descriptions (definitions) of paganism as there are pagans I suspect. 

We must first consider the source of such a definition, and whether it was/is well intentioned or not. 

As explained earlier, they are a fairly disorganized and 'leaderless' bunch in my experience  laugh  The ones I've known or have read about anyway.  They are generally into 'seeking' the oneness of all life, pretty simple philosophy, really, pretty basic.  I have one friend who describes herself as a Pagan, but I think her politics are more leaning toward the philosophy of Anarchy  laugh

Ah yes Anarchy; yet another (purposely) misunderstood concept I'm afraid (much like paganism and of course, economics  Wink). 

Another good read you might find interesting comes from one of my favorite BEEKS Richard Taylor, author of several Beekeeping books, but also a Philosophy Professor who wrote the landmark societal examination titled; "Freedom, Anarchy and the LAW"  A must read for anyone interested in how societies and government work and don't work, and why.
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« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2014, 02:36:05 AM »

Since we can't agree on the definition of pagan lets move on.

Quote
Seems the 'word' of JC is not seriously regarded these days at all. I don't believe there are as many 'true follows' of JC as we have been led to believe, they are in fact a small minority of the 'self-proclaimed' Christians we see and hear.
Agreed.

I'll go further and say the whole bible is grossly misunderstood. I'm not certain we are capable of fully understanding the mind of God. 1 Corinthians 13:12 New Living Translation (NLT)

12 Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. [a] All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely,just as God now knows me completely.
 
I do however think a persons understanding can improve the closer one gets to God, by way of Jesus, imbued with the Spirit.
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« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2014, 06:46:00 PM »

I watched this today, anything making such a list of posts and replies is worth checking out. I guess (well, I know) I'm a conspiracy kinda guy and parts 2 and 3 is nothing I haven't seen many times in hundreds of Youtube videos.

Part one on religion, it is hard to disagree that religion is the cause of most of histories wars - excluding most of those in the 20th and 21st centuries. I've given detailed views on religious thoughts, mainly in the the Coffee House and even the Darkside Forums for a reason, my Christian views are solid in JC being the Lord - I pray regularly and to no other. But when it comes to the Holy Spirit, I take a turn that many don't want to hear.

I think human spirits, both in body and beyond this rotting flesh we inhabit are the Holy Spirit. I think those who have passed have a total insight to it and we do our best to make good decisions and live good lives hoping to get elevated to that next level of spirit.

In body, us mere mortals with all our humanly flaws have sought a greater power in all civilizations, even if that power was a symbolic idol. There is a need in man to seek for a creator, someone who laid out the framework, gave us the basics and let us use our free will to create great unimaginable things or destroy millions in a single blast. That free will is a real zinger, it has lead good people to sins of the flesh which in moral societies has often changed history when leaders, especially those elected can't live by the same morals that those who placed them in positions of power hold.

But then the day comes, and here is where I think I lose so many - most call it judgment day: we move beyond the flesh, now (as anyone who has had near death or out of body experience will tell you) we are free of the binds of flesh and bone, free of gravity, we are energy returning to the source, and bringing our learned knowledge, our experiences, all the things that we were placed on Earth to absorb, and enter it into the Holy Spirit, like data into a super computer.

I don't concern myself with the "Judgment Day" part - it is what it is and I can only hope that we all make it beyond that point and enter what I imagine a whirling vortex of energy that we simply swim (for a lack of a better term) into.

It is in there that we all hope we get to meet the spirits of our loved ones passed. We learn and share the knowledge of millenniums of knowledge, we are part of God, we are the Holy Spirit. The last point I'll add to that is I hope and believe that there is no judging, it is all love and all are one, greatened by the totality and a part of God, the part he placed us here to become.

Just my thoughts.

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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2014, 01:07:13 AM »

We didn't actually discuss the movie did we? Kinda got off on theology which I am happy to discuss whenever it comes up. The theory of a human spirit being a part of the Holy Spirit doesn't mesh with the Scriptures for me. I believe everyone has a soul, but the Holy Spirit is a gift, for whoever chooses it, from God. I can follow that the soul is a part of the vast nature/energy of God and since it comes from him it must be a part of him. The substituting of spirit for soul though I believe is an error. An easy one to make too. But the difference is HUGE, and a matter of life vs. eternal life. Maybe a reconsideration of the terms used is in order?
I would be careful about what I teach where the Spirit is concerned.  Jesus warns-
Matt. 12
 30 “This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you’re not on my side, you’re the enemy; if you’re not helping, you’re making things worse.

31-32 “There’s nothing done or said that can’t be forgiven. But if you deliberately persist in your slanders against God’s Spirit, you are repudiating the very One who forgives. If you reject the Son of Man out of some misunderstanding, the Holy Spirit can forgive you, but when you reject the Holy Spirit, you’re sawing off the branch on which you’re sitting, severing by your own perversity all connection with the One who forgives.

33 “If you grow a healthy tree, you’ll pick healthy fruit. If you grow a diseased tree, you’ll pick worm-eaten fruit. The fruit tells you about the tree.

Not trying to be "preachy", I only want everyone to reach the promised land.
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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2014, 06:28:54 AM »

I'd like to know what viewers thought about the sections on MONEY and FINANCE and if it provided any paradigm shifts in thinking or understanding of how and why we are in the mess we currently find ourselves.
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2014, 07:14:09 AM »

Just a quick thought on "Matt. 12:30 “This is war, and there is no neutral ground. If you’re not on my side, you’re the enemy; if you’re not helping, you’re making things worse."

SCARILY, that sounds like G.W. Bush's speech concerning terrorist. "Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime."

I just see parallels in those two writings. I'm sure "The Speech RIGHTers" (get it) didn't pull that Bush line out of thin air.

____________


About the money side of the video, rich marry rich, if for no other reason than power. There isn't anything new from our country's founding day until today so says the video - and how can you disagree that we are slaves to a privately financed Federal Reserve system that prints money that has interest designed into every note lent. It is as corrupt as it gets and we have no other system, because we have no other currency - forget bit-coins, that is a nightmare that falls apart more every day. As if there isn't enough "digital" in our lives, we don't need to add another.

My wife's coworker will not purchase ammo with anything except cash, heI assume that goes for weapons purchases as well. The less paperwork that travels in and out of financial institutions the better. I know it takes good reasoning to pull a persons financial records (well, it did before homeland security) at least at one time a judge had allow such intrusions into one's private finances.

Last point on this off topic issue - NJ may be the battle ground for the 2nd Amendment with bills suggested that confiscation of hundreds of deemed assault type rifles and other high capacity weapons are just the governor's signature away. Of course this is the infamous Chris Christie I'm talking about, the great white elephant the Right still has enough faith in to stick with him through his Bridge-Gate fiasco. He would be splitting his own throat to allow weapon confiscations, mind you we are talking .22 varmint rifles are included on this list.

So power is where the money is and money is where the power is - I don't think the video was too conspiratorial on any of that. I often question whenever facts are tossed at me at tongue twisting speeds, at the accuracy of the info. I think you might have to do a lot of homework to fact check much of that video. That from all three parts.
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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2014, 12:49:49 PM »

I'd like to know what viewers thought about the sections on MONEY and FINANCE and if it provided any paradigm shifts in thinking or understanding of how and why we are in the mess we currently find ourselves.

If this series had been the beginning of my true education, Yes, I'm confident it would have seemed a revelation. But I had already gained much of the info from other sources and some of that(money/finance) isn't covered as fully in Zeitgeist.
But Zeitgeist was much easier to watch and understand. I need to give credit for that because for most people "watch-ability" will determine the total number who will stay invested until the end. Time is an investment, even when it is just watching a show. Anything over 10 minutes, unless it is pure entertainment will not get viewed. That says much about how society has been shaped to ingest the junk and ignore the important things.

If I can lead someone to watch an informative piece I'd begin with Addendum, then the others. Ultimately though I'd want them to see The Money Masters -Bill Still.
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