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Author Topic: Shameful truth  (Read 1509 times)
iddee
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« on: January 27, 2014, 08:26:14 PM »

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Vance G
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2014, 12:30:43 AM »

Watch it!  People have been audited for a lot less!
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T Beek
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2014, 05:38:26 AM »

The post (er), and the guy in the post is what is shameful IMO………..and of course, and as is usual...…..filled with misplaced hatred…….and from my brother iddee…... grin

Posts like this one make me wish my ancestors had resisted the "European Invaders" more aggressively, instead of the more usual welcoming they received. 

Many of my American Native Brothers and Sisters have been fighting against the 'terrorist invasion' of foreigners since 1492. 

Now there's a 'shameful truth' for you all…..especially for you iddee  grin
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2014, 06:44:53 AM »

>Watch it!  People have been audited for a lot less!

The IRS does not retaliate and they will make you pay dearly for saying that... Wink
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T Beek
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2014, 09:05:17 AM »

Todays Immigration issues and complaints coming primarily from Right leaning white folks, as is shown by our MEDIA, have one 'major flaw' in their argument, particularly when discussing immigrants from south of our border. 

Always ignored is the fact that "Mexicans" (their ancestors and descendants) were occupying this country for centuries before Europeans arrived and to put it simply, they aren't going anywhere.  It is a futile effort to restrict the expansion of Brown People in the USA…….or the world for that matter.  They've got a tremendous head start  cool…so its best to just get over it and practice some acceptance. 

Although my own Native roots began in Canada, the Mexicans are my close cousins……….and YOURS TOO.  grin  for we really are ONE.
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Keith13
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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2014, 09:44:46 AM »

We can cry about the past forever some make great incomes capitalizing on their past. But the fact remains we can't change the past. The law of the land today says America has a border with other countries. From that fact America has established a legal path for immigration. Crawling over a fence and bypassing the system is illegal and should remain so. I don't care if Mexico extended to Oklahoma at one time it doesn't today

Keith
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T Beek
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2014, 05:45:13 PM »

Time will tell….time will tell  Smiley
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2014, 06:05:13 PM »

i have no problem with immigration.  i have a problem with illegal immigration.  don't care where they come from.  to the mexico issue: it's always curious to me that people defend the breaking of the law when they come this way, but never complain that we can't go south and do the same.  the cost of living is lower down there.  why can't i just go south and live?  why must i go though all that pesky mexican immigration AND they won't even let me buy land. 

we can look at the disaster that open immigration has been in the EU and for the brits letting former colonists come in as they wish.  i can see why the dems like the idea.  it's a great way to expand the welfare rolls and the leftists voting block.

T want's to make it a race issue, but that, as we have found in the last few years, is the fall back position for a weak argument.  yes, we may all be of one human family, but we all made different choices.  if you don't like the way your place is running, fix it.  don't go to another country and demand accommodation.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2014, 09:37:52 PM »

We can cry about the past forever some make great incomes capitalizing on their past. But the fact remains we can't change the past. The law of the land today says America has a border with other countries. From that fact America has established a legal path for immigration. Crawling over a fence and bypassing the system is illegal and should remain so. I don't care if Mexico extended to Oklahoma at one time it doesn't today

Keith

keith, from what i can see mexico has annexed the lower 48.  i work with a lot of mexican immigrants and i'm sure most of them are not here legally.  they're good people but i do think they should be held to the letter of the law like the rest of us.  honestly, if you took away all the illegal labor our economy would crash.  it's ironic that the pos, i mean potus wants to raise the minimum wage (which is really just another way of taxing us indirectly) but he doesn't talk about the people working for slave wages and sending the money they do earn out of the country.  then again this is the man that awarded a giant contract to a canadian company to set up the website for the affordable health care act at the last minute without taking bids so i'm really not surprised.  3 more years but i don't see things getting better after he's out.  as long as he's around to campaign it's going to be hard to get anyone that's not a democrat elected.
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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2014, 09:53:13 PM »

i live in an heavy agriculture area.  the labor is mostly from south of the border. papers do get checked, but they are easy to forge.  these are people who work hard, take care of their families, and for the most part, are at least no harm to the community.  they do jobs that no one else would do and they do what they are qualified to do. 

i don't know any farmer or rancher who even wants to try to hire the pampered white, who will complain about blisters, get a backache after two days, and collect worker comp. 

so yeah, we need this labor.  they need the jobs.   we need a good workers program like we used to have.  come, make money, go home.  come back next year.  no welfare, food stamps, etc.

was in wal-mart the other day and got behind a group sending money home.  1000's of dollars.  if and when they do go home, they will be wealthy if someone at home is managing things well.

we need to deal with the kids who have been here all of their lives.  we need to identify who is here. if they are working and clean, find a way to make them legal to work.  DO NOT fast track them to citizenship.  do not allow them to vote. after a small grace period to register, anyone caught unregistered needs to be tossed out with prejudice. 
set a date to start, and anyone coming over the border after that, deported with prejudice.  they have lost forever their chance to come here.

i don't think it's rocket science.  don't think it should take a 1000 page bill. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2014, 10:10:55 PM »

if it's not a 1000 page bill they can't hide all kinds of stuff in it. 
we've got construction and agriculture over this way but nobody is checking papers.  i remember the first illegal i met that i knew was an illegal.  i asked why he was way over in georgia and he told me because he didn't have to worry about getting deported, that was about 20 years ago.
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T Beek
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« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2014, 06:08:24 AM »

i have no problem with immigration.  i have a problem with illegal immigration.  don't care where they come from.  to the mexico issue: it's always curious to me that people defend the breaking of the law when they come this way, but never complain that we can't go south and do the same.  the cost of living is lower down there.  why can't i just go south and live?  why must i go though all that pesky mexican immigration AND they won't even let me buy land.  

we can look at the disaster that open immigration has been in the EU and for the brits letting former colonists come in as they wish.  i can see why the dems like the idea.  it's a great way to expand the welfare rolls and the leftists voting block.

T want's to make it a race issue, but that, as we have found in the last few years, is the fall back position for a weak argument.  yes, we may all be of one human family, but we all made different choices.  if you don't like the way your place is running, fix it.  don't go to another country and demand accommodation.



Not true.  I have some veteran friends who've been living very well in Mexico for over forty years.  It wasn't me who made immigration a race issue, that's for the bigots among us.  Its not like they hide their beliefs or opinions.  Did you not notice the OP???

As for 'illegal' immigration….well….where should we begin?  The beginning perhaps huh  Can we start with the original theft of LAND?

Fixing it?  My efforts at 'fixing' are never ending…..how about yours?  Wink
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 08:50:26 AM by T Beek » Logged

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kathyp
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« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2014, 01:10:26 PM »

Quote
Can we start with the original theft of LAND?

get over it.  throughout history most conquered and colonized lands have been better off for it.  want to go live in a grass hut?  go for it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2014, 02:59:20 PM »

Quote
Can we start with the original theft of LAND?

get over it.  throughout history most conquered and colonized lands have been better off for it.  want to go live in a grass hut?  go for it.

A typical response from one not personally affected.  I've heard that type of comment for years, but its never meant to be racist or even offensive  rolleyes .  Grass hut huh?  I have lived in one and other alternative shelters too. 

Ask the conquered and colonized 'people' whether they were/are better off, not the new OWNERS/thieves who rent or sell the stolen land off to you and I.  Heck, ask the Irish for a recent European example. 

Your support for the real 'takers' of this world is overwhelming…... Wink, it just has to be that JBS training  grin
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sterling
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« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2014, 04:22:10 PM »

If you want them to have their land back so much give them your land and go live in Europe or wherever you people came from..
Hmm Tb you filling out the papers yet.
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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2014, 05:06:21 PM »

even Obamas brother said they were better off as a colony of the brits.

some people what to hang on to the past forever and wallow in self pity.  heck, my ancestors were taken over by the Romans.  guess i should go cry in my soup. 

man or animal, you are either predator or prey.  only man gets to make the choice which they will be.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2014, 05:08:36 PM »

If you want them to have their land back so much give them your land and go live in Europe or wherever you people came from..
Hmm Tb you filling out the papers yet.

sterling; My people (the Anishinabeg or 'original' people) come from 'here' with a little French Canadian spicing things up.  I and my family are members of the Sault Ste. Marie Band of Ojibwa.  

Perhaps I should be asking you for your papers, heh?  grin  TBH; I don't believe in land ownership.  We are borrowers while alive, nothing more.
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iddee
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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2014, 05:35:39 PM »

Tb, "your" people crossed from Russia to get here. No, they didn't originate here. So what are you saying, first come first served?

If so, I guess only the "occupied" land actually belonged to "your" people. The rest belongs to the Europeans that settled it first.

PS. Cherokee here, but I don't request any special recognition or favors.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2014, 07:37:57 PM »

If you want them to have their land back so much give them your land and go live in Europe or wherever you people came from..
Hmm Tb you filling out the papers yet.

sterling; My people (the Anishinabeg or 'original' people) come from 'here' with a little French Canadian spicing things up.  I and my family are members of the Sault Ste. Marie Band of Ojibwa.  

Perhaps I should be asking you for your papers, heh?  grin  TBH; I don't believe in land ownership.  We are borrowers while alive, nothing more.
My people were German and I don't think they took anything from you.
Did the French Canadians take your Ojibwa land from you huh
My point is the same as has already been made by some one else. what happened back then happened. I or anyone else living today had anything to do with it. I didn't kill any Indians my father didn't kill any Indians. I don't own slaves. My father didn't own slaves. I don't think I owe anybody anything who is living today because their great, great, great granddaddy's land got taken away from them or their great grandmamma was a slave on a cotton farm somewhere. These people who think they should have special "rights" because there was a slave in there behind or their wondering family got booted off of their land 100 or so years ago are just trying to take advantage of the system. And the amount of money the nowadays Mexicans are getting and are going to get from us is a whole lot more then that piece of desert is worth that they claim is supposed to be theirs.
I wonder if the Muslims are paying the Jews a bunch of money and feeling sorry nowadays for all the Jews Mohamed killed in his day. I'm sure they are.
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hjon71
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« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2014, 01:08:31 AM »

Tb, "your" people crossed from Russia to get here. No, they didn't originate here.


Just 1 of a few theories. I like the Pangaea/Continent Drift idea personally.
 http://education.nationalgeographic.com/education/encyclopedia/continental-drift/?ar_a=1

Some Native Americans believe through oral history that they have always been here.
 http://www.native-languages.org/bering.htm

Which coincides nicely.
Could some migration occur? Sure. The only explanation?  I doubt it.
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