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Author Topic: JOBS and fundamental economic justice  (Read 2433 times)
T Beek
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« on: January 13, 2014, 10:48:54 AM »

There is a proven way to generate job opportunity. 

FIRST; Don't tax jobs; taxes on wages only make it more expensive for employers to hire workers. 

SECOND; Do tax LAND or minimally 'recover' the VALUE of locations, but NOT its improvements (buildings and infrastructure).  To pay the levy, LANDowners will quit speculating and instead put their sites to good use……………...and doing that generates JOBS.

Its amazing what some "fundamental economic justice" could accomplish.
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Vance G
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 11:40:18 AM »

I must be slow, I cannot think when that has ever worked or how it could.  Sounds like you been drinking that free Bubble-Up and eatin that Rainbow stew. 

Any government input in financial activity is a negative input.  It doesn't work every time it is tried.

  Why don't we just start respecting personal property rights every time?  Why don't we allow cheap energy to happen so that people can afford to build things here?

  Why don't we allow people to become employed without buying the job from a union?  Why not stop requiring a license for the simplest task and trade?  That would be justice, but those who want to control their neighbors can't allow it, can they?

  This plan worked very well the first time didn't it?  We were the richest nation in the world with unbelievable and unprecedented social and financial mobility, weren't we?  Now we have been reduced to third world status by such tinkering as you suggested, haven't we?
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T Beek
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 11:51:29 AM »

http://www.progress.org/classic-articles/where-tax-reform-has-worked/    

This should satisfy your curiosity 'if' really interested.  I don't think you're slow.  That would be presumptuous and mean spirited.  

Confused over how political economies function is more likely.
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Vance G
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 12:37:42 PM »

I am not confused.  I actually studied economics in college.  I watched Ronald Reagan turn me into a Conservative and suffered under Jimmy Carter and all his pale imitations since.  I have actually had to make payrolls!  I am not confused.
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Keith13
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 01:58:43 PM »

Tbeek please help me here

You want to tax only the landowner not the business that sits on the land? So we would tax the land owners of say Wall Street but not the bankers that do business on wall street?

I agree why tax the workers salary? I agree leave him with more money to spend to further stimulate the economy. I believe that is a form of trickle down economics??

Keith
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T Beek
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 02:09:10 PM »

I am not confused.  I actually studied economics in college.  I watched Ronald Reagan turn me into a Conservative and suffered under Jimmy Carter and all his pale imitations since.  I have actually had to make payrolls!  I am not confused.

I also studied economics in college, along with psychology, both lied and omitted many truths I later discovered.  There are actually 'two' schools of economics, one being the type we attended (learning the tricks of the trade, ethics be darned), the other recognizing natural economic laws proven through the ages.

I've also done payroll having started and sold at profit two different businesses and managing another couple for others.  Not sure what the point of that is, really.
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T Beek
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 05:08:35 PM »

Tbeek please help me here

You want to tax only the landowner not the business that sits on the land? So we would tax the land owners of say Wall Street but not the bankers that do business on wall street?

I agree why tax the workers salary? I agree leave him with more money to spend to further stimulate the economy. I believe that is a form of trickle down economics??

Keith

See the link I provided.  I've been accused often enough of providing 'too much' info.  I'm for taxing 'unearned income' only.
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iddee
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2014, 06:15:55 PM »

 ""I'm for taxing 'unearned income' only.""

Does that include welfare checks and food stamps, tbeek?
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 06:32:14 PM »

and what/who determines what is earned and not earned. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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T Beek
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2014, 04:52:53 AM »

If either of you knew anything about economics, particularly as it relates to 'political economies' you'd already know the definition of 'earned' and 'unearned' income, instead of proving your lack of economic insight with jokes and ridicule.  

I'm talking about REAL MONEY, not the scraps you seem to resent whenever 'anyone' less advantaged than a millionaire faces difficulties.

It is extremely difficult to have a conversation with ones self, unless the self is a little kooky  Smiley   This 'could' have been an 'eye' opening discussion.  All we needed were some open eyes and some open minds and of course, open HEARTS .  Too much?


According to SOME; Its a crime to be poor, (its all 'their' fault), Its a crime to be smart (whenever it challenges your worldview), its a crime to 'think' differently than you (you turn them into insects or worse), its a crime to be different, act different, speak different than YOU.

……..But all is well if you earn income through 'magic' and of course, stepping on others accomplishments to get rich…….if that is an incorrect assumption I apologize.  

………………………...Please show 'me' the errors of my way……..

I think I'm on to something.  I'm beginning to recognize a pattern.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 06:37:41 AM by T Beek » Logged

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iddee
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2014, 08:30:55 AM »

Tbeek, I am shocked to even think a person as intelligent as you could possibly be so wrong about people. Let me give you a bit of background, to show you just how silly your posts look.

less advantaged? poor? Who might I consider fits that description? I was born in a house with 4 ft. sq. openings in the second story for windows. We covered them with blankets in the winter. No running water, a wood cookstove, a living room fireplace, with a flue for a stove when we could afford one. No door knobs, just a string between two nails
If we wanted meat, we killed. If we wanted seafood, we fished. If we wanted veggies, we went to our garden, or the neighbors, or picked wild. At 7, I started shining shoes on main street for $.15. At 10, I was washing dishes in a cafe. At 13, mixing mortar and carrying brick for a mason, for $.35 per hour. One pair of shoes in Sept. when school started. Barefoot by April, since they were totally worn out. Shirts made by my mother from the sacks animal feed came in.
Quit school at 16 to go to work in a textile mill. Joined the Army at 20, served 5 1/2 years, combat included.
Ended with being the founder of a million dollar corporation, plus 3 other successful businesses. Retired, not rich, but comfortable.
Don't come on here telling me I'm too dumb or inexperienced to understand. I have been down the road, and never drew an unemployment check, filed for foodstamps, or any other GIV'MINT gifts.
The more you post, the sillier you look.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
T Beek
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2014, 09:16:13 AM »

Actually I think I'm usually pretty 'right on' when it comes to people.   My livelihood kinda depended on it.

Yeah well I grew up poor too iddee, I'm oldest of 7 kids, left home at 15 after Father died, joined the Military 10 days after turning 17, was schooled by our Streets, our Military, our Government and our Universities, despite no H.S. Diploma (MilitaryGED) earning 2 Degrees over 9 years, just under the 10 year GI BILL allowable limit (all while working, running a business (s), building a home, raising a family etc….). 

BIG HAIRY DEAL!  Everyone of us has the capacity to overcome a 'tough' life…..unfortunately our 'culture' breeds most of it out of us.

If you're saying; "we are products of our experiences"  Then I can only agree half way………We 'are' (can be) so much more than that.

Honestly Brother, what's the point you're trying to make with this?  Are we competing with our life histories now?  Is that what you want to do?   Do you want to see my scars too? My tattoos, hear my 'stories?' 

I'd provide you a place of HIGH HONOR my Brother, a place only my fellow vets are allowed to visit.

We should PM each other then, because it might be pretty 'boring' for other members.  Smiley  PM me 'if' you really want to know me.
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iddee
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2014, 09:25:45 AM »

""BIG HAIRY DEAL!  Everyone of us has the capacity to overcome a 'tough' life…..unfortunately our 'culture' breeds most of it out of us.""

That's the most intelligent and truthful statement I have ever read from you. Now, if you would quit trying to let the GIV'MINT adopt every crying towel out there, you and I might have a beer and go fishing.

Study your own statement very thoroughly and you might just be able to understand the majority of the members on this forum.

It's your "proposed" culture that is breeding it out of them.

PS. I have replied to every PM I have ever gotten, that the sender expected a reply. ""hint""
PPS. I didn't grow up poor. I was middle class in this area at that time.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
T Beek
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2014, 10:02:06 AM »

I fail to understand your "accusation."  I've never implied nor do I believe, in letting "the GIV'MINT adopt every crying towel out there."  I don't know what ever gave you that idea, its as far from my 'stated positions' as you could possibly get.  I dunno  I 'believe' in LESS (more efficient, more fair) Government, not more…..
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iddee
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2014, 10:22:05 AM »

"" I've never implied nor do I believe,""

Believed, I don't know. Implied, YES, definitely. Given us the idea that you believe, YES.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
T Beek
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2014, 10:40:14 AM »

"" I've never implied nor do I believe,""

Believed, I don't know. Implied, YES, definitely. Given us the idea that you believe, YES.

Well it must've been a 'misunderstanding' then.  Could you provide an example?
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hjon71
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« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2014, 11:27:37 AM »

"" I've never implied nor do I believe,""

Believed, I don't know. Implied, YES, definitely. Given us the idea that you believe, YES.

Well it must've been a 'misunderstanding' then.  Could you provide an example?

This should be interesting.
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iddee
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2014, 12:50:25 PM »

I've just spent a very good amount of time reading your past posts. You are a clever writer. Before I answer your "personal opinion" question, let me clarify with this one.

If I were to say I wish I could type better, so I could keep a line of thought going, rather than having to stop and look for the letters on the keyboard, and could beat around a subject for 5 or more paragraphs without saying anything concrete, would you say I was implying that you could?

Many people would say I was, many would say I wasn't.

Your posts are implying to me certain thoughts and feelings, but written in away that clearly shows that it could have possibly meant something entirely different, leaving you a comeback to anything I refer back to.

Now, with that in mind, remember when you referred to Beemaster as part of the 53%. That is the most recent implication to me that you are in favor of saving and supporting the 47%.

No need to type your comeback, I can already see it.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
T Beek
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« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2014, 04:11:01 PM »

"" I've never implied nor do I believe,""

Believed, I don't know. Implied, YES, definitely. Given us the idea that you believe, YES.

Well it must've been a 'misunderstanding' then.  Could you provide an example?

This should be interesting.



Nope, it'll be ignored…….this has been going on for a while….years...
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T Beek
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2014, 04:22:27 PM »

I've just spent a very good amount of time reading your past posts. You are a clever writer. Before I answer your "personal opinion" question, let me clarify with this one.

If I were to say I wish I could type better, so I could keep a line of thought going, rather than having to stop and look for the letters on the keyboard, and could beat around a subject for 5 or more paragraphs without saying anything concrete, would you say I was implying that you could?

Many people would say I was, many would say I wasn't.

Your posts are implying to me certain thoughts and feelings, but written in away that clearly shows that it could have possibly meant something entirely different, leaving you a comeback to anything I refer back to.

Now, with that in mind, remember when you referred to Beemaster as part of the 53%. That is the most recent implication to me that you are in favor of saving and supporting the 47%.

No need to type your comeback, I can already see it.



Cool, something else we have in common iddee.  Smiley

 I type with just my 2 middle fingers and have to look at the keyboard too  laugh laugh

I did 'cut my typing teeth' in college though, and by writing thousands of letters to a wide variety of our Elected Officials and assorted publications, and even wrote and published a book on small scale agriculture for profit twenty some years ago, PRACTICE is all it takes, Brother, just practice.  

When I met my wife I hired her as my secretary, at the time I could type about half as fast as she does, now I'm twice as fast.   But having to look at the keyboard, not the screen can get ya in trouble too….things can get scrambled up…...then EDITING takes over……….I don't try to cause misunderstanding iddee, and I'm not completely sure they're all my fault as some seem to believe.


UMMM-MY REFERENCE TO THE 53% CAME "FROM BEEMASTER", NOT ME, GO BACK AND READ IT AGAIN OLD MAN   laugh laugh…ooopss, sorry for the caps   

LOVE AND ONLY LOVE
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