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Author Topic: War on Poverty  (Read 693 times)
sterling
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« on: January 08, 2014, 05:41:10 PM »

Today is the fiftieth birthday for the War on Poverty.   20.7 TRILLION DOLLARS later we still have a 14% poverty rate which is about the same as it was when Democratic president L. B. Johnson gave birth to the war to abolish poor folks. In 1993 the govt. had spent 5 Trillion so in the last 20 years over 15 trillion dollars has been taken away from working people and redistributed to people who don't work and most don't want to work. So what has this democratic program accomplished?

And Bluebee before you start saying WHAT WOULD JESUS DO. Jesus said the poor will always be with you. Not even the democrats can fix that with other peoples money.
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2014, 06:19:52 PM »

worse, only about 20 cents on the dollar actually gets to the poor.  the rest is eaten by administrative costs.  none of us would donate to a charity with a spending record like that.  in fact, they'd be investigated.

another interesting bit of info...the poverty rate was dropping until the war on poverty.  after that, it froze and has been about the same ever since.  cause and effect? 

poverty is not a static condition for most, nor is it a disease.  it is a place that most of us have been, moved out of, maybe been in again, and out.  poverty should be incentive for doing better, not for figuring out how many more government programs you can sign up for!

 and if you are really in a fix, that's what a charity is for.  they will evaluate you, help you out, and not become your nursemaid.  they can't.  they have donors that expect them to use money wisely.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 06:22:36 AM »

Well the proof is in the pudding they say.

1965's poverty rate was 26%, today its 14% according to sterling.  That 'looks' like an improvement.  Personally I would have taken a different approach that would have 'really' ended poverty but…………...

Perhaps, Henry George's most fatal flaw was his failure to recognize how powerful the opposing forces (LANDLORDS) to his ideology could be.  He should have known better, because those opposing forces are where all the money is…..alas…..However, he also had 'faith' in the American peoples ability to stand up against those forces, another flaw perhaps?

Under our current 'global' economic system, one thing is clear yet remains the most misunderstood.  Progress does not solve poverty, it just creates wealth for a few.  Only true 'liberty' solves poverty.

"KEEP WHAT YOU MAKE (Wages 'earned' from labor or intellect) PAY FOR WHAT YOU TAKE" (Land and its resources)  Simple, right?  Then why don't we do it?

Our current economic system is purposely twisted backward, ignores 'natural' economic laws that would benefit everyone and is completely reliant on a 'shrinking' middle class to support both the wealthy and the poor, mostly the wealthy who receive the lions share (its how they got/stay rich) primarily due to their monopolization of the world and its resources.  

We have this complex system BECAUSE we chose/allowed it.  We call it Democracy.  Thus we can also change it IF we have the guts.  It'll take more than words………...
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T Beek
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 02:38:58 PM »

WWJD?  He'd be angry as hell and his finger would be pointing directly at the money changers.  And their defenders  shocked

He certainly wouldn't be passing judgement on the less fortunate, unlike some 'self-proclaimed' Christians.
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sterling
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2014, 06:55:04 PM »

Tbeek I don't know where you got your 26% poverty rate in 1964 I looked at graphs and numbers put out by the Govt. and the highest I found was in 1959 at about 24% it and dropped from there to about 17% in 1964 before the WAR on POVERTY and in the next 10 years dropped to 15% and has stayed pretty much level since. Has climbed under the current administration.
But my main point is the 20.7 TRILLION we have wasted teaching people they don't have to work the Govt. will take care ofem.
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sterling
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2014, 07:08:41 PM »

WWJD?  He'd be angry as hell and his finger would be pointing directly at the money changers.  And their defenders  shocked

He certainly wouldn't be passing judgement on the less fortunate, unlike some 'self-proclaimed' Christians.

It seems to me you are the one passing judgment on Christians with your self proclaimed righteousness..There may be so called Christians in Wisconsin passing judgments as you say on the less fortunate but the Christians whom I know in Mt Juliet Tn spend a lot of time and money and love helping those people in need all around the world. And ask for nothing in return and thank God for being able to help.
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T Beek
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2014, 07:31:15 PM »

No ones perfect sterling…..only God and/or Nature……..try to get used to it……... grin  if possible.

So how about the year I sited?  1965?  What was the source of your stats again?   The Government you LOVE to Hate (that's like hating yourself, you know).  Much depends on the source and who doing the asking, you know that, right?

And please tell us what else occurred between 1959 and 1964 that just might have affected poverty rates?  I won't hold my breath waiting for answers that never come…….. Wink



Yeah I know your 'main' points, they've been redundantly clear as long as you've posting  grin.  Anything else you want to say about the 'content' of what I posted? ….let it fly man……. Kiss

Feeding the poor, housing the homeless is not wasted money IMO…..Hardly, and saying so simply displays the intensions of a cruel heart.  I feel sorry for you sterling………Were you abused as a child somehow?  This persistent lashing out at those 'you have no control' over must get tiring.

Um, do you know the definition of 'righteousness' sterling?  How about 'self-righteousness?'  While you're looking up righteousness, see also conservative, democrat, liberal and Christian……….you're not the only one around here who doesn't know or understand these words very well so don't feel to bad……


Do you call yourself a Christian, sterling?  If you do, and if your friends in Mt Juliet talk like you, then IMO you're all 'judgmental' Christians and should seek another Pastor ASAP.  While you're at it, Maybe you should look up 'judgmental' while you're at the Library too, unless you have your own Dictionary.  

You always have to make things harder than they have to be, don't you sterling?  Now "that" is a waste…. Sad



You don;t know where I get my figures from, I don't know where you get your biblical information from.  Is that what's called an even steven?  laugh

If you weren't my brother I wouldn't bother……but to be honest I don't believe you know much about poverty or war…..or Jesus.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 05:13:04 AM by T Beek » Logged

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T Beek
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 06:51:08 AM »

"What the world needs is justice, not benevolence.  To the extent the law grants special favors to some, do the people suffer?  The greatest special privilege is LAND MONOPOLY, made possible by the exemption from taxation of land VALUES.  So long as it is permitted to any man to take what doesn't belong to him through monopolizing natures's resources and the private ownership of public utilities, plenty of men of my kind will always be ready to jump in and do the stealing.  My mission is to take what people are stupid enough to let me take, and to show them how they can put an end to the system which enriches me and impoverishes them."

Tom L. Johnson (1876-1934), millionaire, industrialist, Mayor of Cleveland, OH.


"The land shall not be sold forever; for the land is mine."   GOD through Moses (Leviticus 25:23)
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Vance G
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 09:37:41 PM »

In 1964 I was one of those far below the poverty line.  But in my little boy mind, I was LOWER MIDDLE CLASS!  I borrowed money to start college and worked and worked.  I graduated college with a couple degrees, a wife, a kid and a job and $647 student loan debt.  Adjusting for inflation that is just equal to used car!  No program was needed.  No rich evil person held me down.  I worked for those rich people and got a good wage because I was good enough to demand it.   I slung pizza for $1.04 per hour because that was what was available when I needed money too.  No one had to pay me to stay poor!  I didn't. 

Now we pay people to stay poor.  We tax those trying to acquire wealth into oblivion and call them evil rich.  And all this so some leftists can feel good about themselves because they are HELPING those hopelessly incapable poor people.  If possible they get a grant, live off it and talk for hours about helping poor people.  Or from their safe sinecure in guvmint  bureaucracy or in the Edjacation industry, they help even more!  It is not working---except for them.  That is apparently good enough
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iddee
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2014, 10:24:58 PM »

Thanks, Vance


 goodpost
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2014, 05:19:41 AM »

 th_thumbsupup

Good point Vance. Most of us can relate to that one way or the other.

I graduated High School in 1977. Starting the summer after I completed the 6th grade I hoed cotton to buy my school clothes. Then when I was 16 I bought a car and got me a good job  lau - roofing and construction.
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2014, 06:38:31 AM »

Good posts TBeek  applause applause applause

in the last 20 years over 15 trillion dollars has been taken away from working people

No it wasn’t.  Just like all the Republican wars that were unpaid for, the costs of this war also went onto the National Debt.  The Fed has been doing a decent job at erasing debt with their bond buyback programs and hence some of that cost is simply free money.  A concept which I’m sure boggles the conservative mind  laugh

It looks like the main benefactor of the War on Poverty has been the bee keepers demographic!  Take at look at the poverty rate of senior citizens from 1964 to now.  http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/01/08/elderly-among-biggest-winners-in-the-war-on-poverty

Was the war worth the cost?  No, wars on anything are almost never worth the cost.  I would agree with TBeek that there would have been better ways to fight poverty.  The real winners are the 1%ers, as usual.
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kathyp
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« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2014, 10:04:56 AM »

Quote
the costs of this war also went onto the National Debt.

and who do you think ends up paying for that in the long run?  the people who are not working?  there is no "free money".  you are ether accruing debt, or causing inflation by devaluing the dollar.  neither of those options lead to free money.

Quote
The real winners are the 1%ers, as usual.

but not in the way you'd like that to mean.  people with wealth have ways to shelter or grow their wealth, even in bad times.  not all of them...many a rich person has lost it all in a downturn.  but if you have money, you have a chance to take advantage of what others have lost.  that's not a bad thing.  when they buy and invest, money is put back into the economy.  when they can expand, they can hire.  that's how things recover.  there is nothing that poor people do, that will lead to economic recovery.

however they stay rich, it has nothing to do with others being poor.  long term poverty is a function of govenrment programs and poor choices.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2014, 12:37:39 PM »

Seems there is great confusion as to how political economies actually function in the world.  That confusion?  It is no accident, nor are the misguided opinions that keep the status quo alive and well.







"I don't have to do nothin' to you, you'll cause your own Country to fall"   Stevie Wonder…Big Brother (1972)
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