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Author Topic: Pollen substitute patties...  (Read 7521 times)
beebiz
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« on: February 06, 2006, 09:12:33 PM »

Hey all,

I haven't been around here in a while.  My computer's HD crashed and it took me a while to get it fixed.  And as it is with so many computer users, I had virtually NOTHING backed up on CD's or anything else.  I lost the address for Beemaster, and just found it when I was sent an email about the 1000 members strong.  Way to go!!!  I'm glad I found Beemaster again!

I have one colony of bees that I wanted to feed a pollen substitute to.  However, I have no pollen and right now finances dictate that I cannot buy any pollen or the substitutes that are available.  Back before my HD crashed, I found a site where the owner said that he had come up with a recipe for a pollen substitute patty that seemed to be palletable to the bees.  Before giving the recipe he joked about how he was going to charge a certain price for the "secret" recipe.  But in the end, he charged nothing for it.

I had the site and the page bookmarked in my favorites, but as I said, all of that information was lost when the HD crashed.  I don't remember anything about the recipe except that it contained no pollen and that everything in it was available from the grocery store.  Can anyone out there help me with finding this site?  If not, can anyone help me with a recipe that I can use that would contain things that are redily available from the groecry store?  I hate to do it this way, but I can only do what my $$$ allows me to do.

Thanks in advance for any help that you may be able to give.

Robert

P.S
I learned a hard lesson.... if it ain't backed up..... BACK IT UP!!!!  Don't be guilty of having to learn that lesson the hard way like I did!!
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Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2006, 09:32:30 PM »

Sounds like one I found awhile ago too. The one I found was for soy flour or brewer's yeast mixed with a little vitamin C.
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thegolfpsycho
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2006, 09:44:52 PM »

That would probably be Dennis Murells' site.  B-wrangler.  I think he mixes it up and adds a little vitamin C, but I could be wrong.

http://bwrangler.atspace.com/
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Apis629
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2006, 10:08:09 PM »

He did say he added vitamin C but, I thought he added it to pollen suplements and not substitutes.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2006, 11:04:49 PM »

You can find pollen at health food stores. Back when I was truckin' cross country I saw it sold in capsule form at truck stops.
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beebiz
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2006, 12:56:08 AM »

Thanks guys.  You are right.... bwrangler is the site that I was thinking of.  And it is the vitamin C added to pollen supplements and not substitutes.  Once again, my memory has done a lousy job!!

I've found a couple of recipes that call for soy flour and brewer's yeast.  I have two questions about these ingredients.  First, where do you find them?  I checked with my Wal-Mart super center and they say they don't even know what I'm talking about!  Next, what is the difference (if any) between brewer's yeast and baking yeast?

One last thing.  Do any of you know of a recipe that I can use for a pollen supplement that is made up of things that are redily available at the grocery store?  Seems like I read somewhere that there is a patty that can be made with peanut butter!?!?  I may have, or it may just be my memory playing tricks on me again!!

Thanks again for all your help.

Robert
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Finsky
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2006, 01:16:04 AM »

It should be 20% pollen in the patty and 80% other protein stuff.

 make dough with dough machine.

2 kg dry pollen  - RADIATED
0,7 litre water to soften pollen over night
3 kg yeast  or 0,6 kg dry yeast
2 kg soya flour
1 kg fructose  
1 kg flour sugar
___________________
10 kg total

This volume is for 20 hives for one week. If patty makes bubbles (ferment),  add sugar.

Fructose keeps patty soft. You may use your own honey but it may include  AFB spores.

If you have soya flour without fat, it is good to ad soy oil. Then it is more palatable. In crogery soya flour has often 20% fat. Look text.
Fat content of bee food cannot be over 7%.

If dough is too wet, add soya flour and balance the mixture with it.

Then I roll the paste between two dough paper to 5-8 mm plate and give it to the top bars of frame. During one week 2 super colony can eat 0,5-1 kg that dough. New born bees eat it very eargerly.

Near 20% pollen all colonies are not willing to eat dough.

Dough will be in condition at least 3 weeks in cold. The flour sugar add the content of sugar and stops yeast fermentation.
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Andrew Tyzack
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2006, 02:25:34 AM »

Hi Finsky,

Can you keep the dough in the fridge or freezer even?

Andrew
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downunder
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2006, 05:14:08 AM »

1 part torula yeast or brewers yeast (health food or baking wholesaler)
1 part full fat Soy flour (health food or baking wholesaler)
2 parts irradiated pollen if you are rich Cheesy or work at a university!
1 or 2 (if fussy bees) parts sugar dissolved in hot water (supermarket and tap respectively Cheesy )

Mix together to form a dough like paste. Place patties in between two sheets of grease proof paper and give to hive.

Caution:- If you have small hive beetle do not leave in a hive longer than a week. Otherwise you will have a fermented larva patty! cry

They can be frozen for a short time but it's much better to use fresh.

Fish meal is also another protein supplement although it's a bit on the nose.
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Finsky
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2006, 05:16:34 AM »

Quote from: Andrew Tyzack
Hi Finsky,

Can you keep the dough in the fridge or freezer even?


Good question! I keep in fridge but the main point is that it will be very hard there.

It is better pack in smaller plastic cartons. Before you roll out the stuff between greaseproof paper  it should warmed in micro wave oven, but not too hot because heat  destroys vitamins.  As hand warm it is easy to handle. If it is in one block it is difficult handle.

I take empty cartons with cover from candy shop (video kiosk). Odor of stuff is not pleasant.
2 pictures:





.
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Robo
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2006, 10:26:40 AM »

Finsky,

Do you have a lot of black flies around your hives (I see them on both pictures and a yellow jacket too)?  Last year was the first year I really notices a lot of black flies around my hives.  I didn't see where they were bothering anything.  But boy they sure were annoying when I was working on the hives.  They buzz around and like landing on your bare skin (I assume for sweat) and your mind immediately thinks its a bee rolleyes
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Finsky
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2006, 02:01:40 PM »

Quote from: Robo
Finsky,

Do you have a lot of black flies around your hives :


Yes, I noticed. These pictures have taken in August, late summer.
Patty has such an odor that it gathers soon pretty much flies.
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Andrew Tyzack
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2006, 04:34:47 PM »

I had a brain wave -and yes there is pollen for sale on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BEES-POLLEN-Dried-112g-4ozs-Great-Value_W0QQitemZ5663194625QQcategoryZ19262QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

...don't know if it's any good for patties though???

Andrew
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Finsky
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2006, 11:18:39 PM »

Pollen for bees must be radiated. Otherwise it may contain American foulbrood spores.
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steveb
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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2006, 11:53:38 PM »

Just a thought on the soy bean powder.  That can be obtained from a feed mill as it is used in animal feeds.  Get the extruded variety.  Some mills sell it by the pound and/or by the 50 pound bag.  It is the principle source of non-animal protein in animal feed.
The feed mills also have bulk brewers yeast but it is courser than that found in the health food store (very small flakes vs powder). Not sure if it is too big but have thought about trying it as it is dirt cheap and besides I mix it into some of my animal feed to add some nutrition.
Steve
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Finsky
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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2006, 02:56:58 AM »

Quote from: steveb
Not sure if it is too big but have thought about trying it as it is dirt cheap and besides


Last spring I tried "normal" animal soya flour. I seemed to me proper but when it swolled bees cannot  bite it. Half of flour dropped to bottom board.

Then I changed it to soya flour which is ment to use as "MILK SUBSTITUTE" for animal babies.  When you by from soya flour from small use it is not much in grocery.
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Andrew Tyzack
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2006, 04:33:08 AM »

I don't understand the use of two sheets of greeseproof paper?
How do the bees get at the pattie? Do they remove the paper themselves?

I guess the paper stops the stuff sticking to everything.

Andrew
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Finsky
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« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2006, 04:48:48 AM »

As you see from pic  (above) bees chew broken the paper and they make holes to it. Most of paper drops to the bottom and they must be cleaned once a month.

Paper hints patty to drop down because it is soft. And when you put inner cover on, bees between cover and patty do not soak into patty. And it is easy to roll between paper.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2006, 06:46:49 AM »

You can buy expeller processed or whole soya flour (two names for the same thing) at the health food stores here in the states.  It nees to be very finely ground (hence the flour) and it needs to still have the fat in it (hence the "expeller processed" or "whole").  It's usually in the refrigerated section of the health food store and you should keep it in the freezer until you use it.
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Finsky
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« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2006, 08:28:45 AM »

 For anvance.....

http://www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/05-054.pdf

FAT BEES
SKINNY BEES
-a manual on honey bee nutrition for beekeepers-

Australia
© 2005 Rural Industries Research and Development Corporation.
All rights reserved.
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