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Author Topic: Perone Hives in Australia  (Read 3179 times)
Simon
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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2014, 11:31:15 PM »

Damian,

I don't know of anyone using the Perone system, but judging by the information I found with a quick Google search, there are a few that have it working for them.  Try one out and see how you go - as long as your hive complies with the relevant state regulations regarding frames etc you should be fine.  There are people in Tasmania who advocate using 12 frame Langstroth full depth boxes/supers (whatever you want to call them!!!) that are square and can be fitted any way round - similar to some hives used in the UK and Ireland (like the Rose system) That would be similar to a Perone hive except for the 90 deg corners ...but gee those boxes must be heavy even empty.  There are also Kenya top bar hives, long Langstroths etc that all have some advantages and some disadvantages.  In Australia, generally you will have to make your own equipment unless you choose to use Langstroth hives (or possibly Warre hives).  Beekeeping is pretty much a sea of compromises and just about every design of hive tries to take advantage of some aspect(s) of honey bees' natural behavior.  At the end of the day, bees are pretty adaptable and are quite happy to live in all sorts of weird and wonderful places - around here they love house roof spaces and wall cavities, and they seem to be strong and healthy.  Quite often bees will do exactly what they want regardless of how natural you try to make their environment.

Of course the ultimate size that a colony can become is dictated a bit by the space they have to occupy and also by the climate as the shorter growing seasons, the less time to build up and the more likelihood that they will need a more compact area to survive winter.  One disadvantage of a big strong Perone colony, or a Langstroth one for that matter, is that they might get slightly defensive (or actively hunt you down whip). Fun if you have the right protective gear, but if they get inside your veil and give you a touch up on the eyebrows or on your nose (most likely both) you know that people are going to look at you funny when you walk down the street for the next few days.  Also, sometimes you might be doing something unrelated to beekeeping a fair distance away and be completely unaware that you have just violated one of their laws that requires you or your kids to be punished.  I'm not trying to scare you as most bees are generally pretty gentle most of the time, but if they have something substantial to protect they might surprise you.

Like I said, as long as everything is legal, and the DPI inspectors are usually pretty helpful with such queries, try one of two out.  You will probably want at least two colonies so that if one gets into trouble, you have some spare resources to help them - that also relies on having removable frames so that your equipment can be swapped around.  As a more widely known "natural" alternative, have a look at http://www.naturalbeekeeping.com.au/home.html  Whatever type of equipment you choose to settle on should be related to what you are trying to achieve - from maximum high volume honey production, queen rearing, pollination, interesting hobby with honey benefits to a living WBC hive garden ornament.  As Prestonpaul said, everyone has an opinion (usually different) ...or are like me and have several differing opinions (Lone, that has nothing to do with coming from Tasmania  tongue ).

Good luck Damian, beekeeping is very interesting and very addictive.

Simon
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 03:39:32 AM by Simon » Logged
ugcheleuce
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« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2014, 02:27:14 AM »

"The Bee Book.  Beekeeping in Australia"  Peter Warhurst & Roger Goebel


This appears to the the "official" beekeeping book of Australia (not officially, but "officially").  It is always good to read a book that was written specifically for one's own country, particularly if that book has gone through several revisions (Warhurst & Goebel's book: 1995, 2005, 2013) and/or if one of the editions was published by a government argricultural body (Warhurst & Goebel's book: the 1st edition).  It would be interesting to see how Warhurst & Goebel's book differs from other beekeeping books.

Since you mention that this is part of your first foray into beekeeping, allow me to add one URL:

* http://www.rirdc.gov.au/publications (select "honeybee" from the list).  Remember, there are 10 pages of publications on beekeeping (some of them very dry, academic), so use the "next page" link as well.  Ignore the "Add to cart, $25" button and use the "Download PDF" button -- perhaps they're all free in PDF.

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Samuel Murray, Ugchelen, Netherlands
6 hives in 3 locations (4 x Buckfast F2++, 2 x Ligustica F1+)
ugcheleuce
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« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2014, 02:40:40 AM »

Am I right in the understanding that using foundationless will allow bees to create comb that will produce a more "natural" size of offspring? 

No.  Different studies have shown different things.  Some studies have shown that the bees do tend to build slightly smaller cells, but that it takes several generations to do so.  It is true, however, that if the bees build their own comb that they will build what they feel is more natural, but whether that will end up being "smaller" is entirely up to your particular queen's bees.

Quote
Does this usually lead to a hive that is able to be inspected without too much difficulty/damage?

The size of the cells have nothing to do with ease of inspection.  Whether naturally build comb (foundationless comb) can be inspected without too much difficulty and/or damage depends on how well your bee hive is built.  If you want to go foundationless, it may be best to buy a commercially available factory manufactured bee hive because the hive parts will be exactly the right size to prevent the bees from "fixing" it (which is what leads to difficulty and damage).
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Samuel Murray, Ugchelen, Netherlands
6 hives in 3 locations (4 x Buckfast F2++, 2 x Ligustica F1+)
ozbee
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« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2014, 05:11:59 PM »

after all the stings he will get tearing the honey out amongst the brood . it will definitely be a short beekeeping hobby  wooden frames ,foundation made from 100% bees wax whats unnatural about that.
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GDRankin
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« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2014, 02:28:10 AM »

I realize this is an old thread, but since the original question never got answered . . .
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"anyone in AU been using this system (perone) and what do you think of it, how has it performed?"

I'm guessing that answer would be a no. How about here in the states? Does anyone know of anyone here that has ever used the Perone system and if so, what were the results?

The reason I'm asking is that this may be a good system to try down here in AHB territory, since we have the weather for it and as I understand, that's what Perone kept in these style hives.

I actually have a location that warrants a low to no maintenance set of hives. The area is far from anyone that would be in potential danger of the AHBs and their temperament. I do removals and they say most of the feral bees around here are AHB to some extent anyway, so what would I have to lose by trying some feral bees in a similar type system.
However, I would likely modify a few things. One, being the removable frames to not only satisfy the regs, but also to allow me to add the brood comb from a removal to give them a head start. The other consideration was adopting the concept to the Langstroth sizes so the frames and supers will fit the system. I don't mind building the base box / brood body from scratch, but if I'm going to do that, why not take advantage of the most currently readily available materials for adding on to the top of this base?

I'm not sold on the whole "square" box idea. I've done enough removals to see that bees rarely carry a tape measure or builders square. I've found some pretty bizarre shapes and sizes. most quite amazing actually. So, if anyone sees this post and knows of anyone that has actually worked bees using anything close to the Perone system, I'd be interested in their results.

Thanks,
GD

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shinjak
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« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2014, 05:52:58 PM »

I actually researched perone hives extensively and built a perone hive before I was gifted my current langstroth hives. The §¤«£¿æ.com forum is the best resource I have found (unless you speak Portuguese, Mr. Perone's native language). Oddly enough, it appears the §¤«£¿æ forum is currently down. Anyway, most of the people on that forum who tested Mr. Perone's methods lived in temperate climates with non-africanized bees. The results were less than stellar: the bees just would not build a hive that big under those conditions and failed to thrive. That is one reason why Perone stressed the importance of stocking his hive with prime swarms.

My favorite thing about the concept is that it is easy to build from scrap materials and it provides more vertical comb building space than a top bar or langstroth hive. I think a smaller version would be worth testing in temperate areas.
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GDRankin
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« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2014, 12:33:50 PM »

Heya shinjak,

I'm in south Texas, so we're not exactly "tropical" but we're a lot warmer and have much milder winters here, so I was thinking this may be a good system to experiment with for some of the feral bees I capture and / or the removals of ferals I get from cut-outs. And was wondering if anyone around here had ever tried the Perone style hives.

Since we have a good deal of africanized bees in this area, and according to most around here, the majority of feral bees in this region have africanized genetics mixed in to some degree, I'm interested it seeing what will come of such a hive set-up.

btw - This message system will not allow you to post a web link until after you have made a certain number of posts, but no big deal.

Thanks for the info,
GD
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