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Author Topic: medium box, shallow frame?  (Read 751 times)

Offline drjeseuss

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medium box, shallow frame?
« on: May 27, 2014, 12:54:52 AM »
I've recently built a hive of all mediums for consistency of equipment. Once ready to add frames, I found a deal at a local shop for some frames. I couldn't pass the price up and they looked about right. Once I got home I found they were shallow frames. In a pinch I went ahead and hived a cutout colony in two mediums with the shallow frames. Due to the mixup there's too much space between boxes and I always find little inch tall burr handingoff the upper frames. Of course I want to stick to mediums going forward, but until I get those, any concerns? How about tricks to be sure I don't get frames in the two boxes attached vertically?
Pleasant words are as a honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.
-Proverbs 16:24

Offline Spear

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Re: medium box, shallow frame?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2014, 01:30:55 AM »
I have a in most of my hives - for reasons to long to explain here - some frames that are too short for the boxes and it is a real pain most of the time. The girls are building drone cells on the bottom of the frames and often they will build the comb diagonally across the frame bottoms. The best solution for this I have found is to put the 'short' frames between 'long' frames then atleast they will build straight.

Offline BlueBee

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Re: medium box, shallow frame?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2014, 01:53:57 AM »
Same experience as Spear.  Given the chance the bees usually do just the opposite to what the bee keeper wants!  I hate diagonal natural comb.  Alternating frames as spear suggests is the way to go.  Actually culling the drone comb may help manage your mite load, so it’s not all bad.  The bees want to build drone someplace.  It's better they find a place to do it in the brood chamber than the honey supers.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: medium box, shallow frame?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2014, 06:06:00 AM »
Are you using plastic or wax. If you use plastic foundation, you can remove the bottom boards, use medium foundation and use pins to hold them in place. I have deeps that I cut to mediums, no bottom boards. They went through the extractor with no problems.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline drjeseuss

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Re: medium box, shallow frame?
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2014, 12:11:42 PM »
I have about 2:1 ratio of frames with starter strip only, and wax foundation.  I prefer the starter strips to allow the bees to build cell size of their own choosing, but have every third with was foundation to create a "block" in hopes it will keep them going straight.  My frames with starter strip have 2 horizontal support wires, so without the bottom bar they wouldn't remain the proper shape.  I've been wondering about attaching some sort of block to the bottom bars just to take up some space down there, basically a strip of 1"x1" (roughly).  This would remove the gap, give added gathering space off the combs, and be removable to return the frames to their original purpose.  Any reasons this would be a bad idea?
Pleasant words are as a honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.
-Proverbs 16:24

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: medium box, shallow frame?
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2014, 12:16:43 PM »
I have about 2:1 ratio of frames with starter strip only, and wax foundation.  I prefer the starter strips to allow the bees to build cell size of their own choosing, but have every third with was foundation to create a "block" in hopes it will keep them going straight.  My frames with starter strip have 2 horizontal support wires, so without the bottom bar they wouldn't remain the proper shape.  I've been wondering about attaching some sort of block to the bottom bars just to take up some space down there, basically a strip of 1"x1" (roughly).  This would remove the gap, give added gathering space off the combs, and be removable to return the frames to their original purpose.  Any reasons this would be a bad idea?
None that I can think of.
I use mediums in deep nucs and when I go to put them in a medium hive, I cut off the hanging comb and rubber band it in an empty medium frame. They will quickly fill the frame up with wax and brood.
I usually get a 8 frame medium hive from a 5 frame deep nuc.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline drjeseuss

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Re: medium box, shallow frame?
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2014, 04:44:34 PM »
When using the mediums in deep boxes, do you stack, or only a single box high?  If stacking, do you see issues with the upper frame and lower frame being attached to do they tend to stop before reaching the lower top bar?  I don't mind them filling space so long as they don't go attaching pieces that are seperate for good reason.   :)
Pleasant words are as a honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.
-Proverbs 16:24

Offline Spear

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Re: medium box, shallow frame?
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2014, 05:28:29 PM »
My girls love to build and glue everything to everything! I've had it that when I remove the super some frames from the brood box will come up with it and I have to quickly put it back and use my hive tool to separate the frames. If the spacing is incorrect then I blame the manufactures of my hives! LOL!

Offline drjeseuss

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Re: medium box, shallow frame?
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2014, 06:20:12 PM »
If the spacing is incorrect then I blame the manufactures of my hives! LOL!


Bad plan...  I made my hives!  I was so excited that the boxes were exact specs for a medium when I got done, despite my relative lack of woodworking experience.  When I discovered the frames didn't reach bottom I must have measured my boxes 20 times before realizing the frames were shallow and not medium.  Oops.  I blame the store selling frames without the size marked.  Still my fault though.  Oh well.  I'm going to add the "bottom extenders" (patent pending) soon to see how that helps.
Pleasant words are as a honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.
-Proverbs 16:24

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: medium box, shallow frame?
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2014, 07:16:51 PM »
When using the mediums in deep boxes, do you stack, or only a single box high?  If stacking, do you see issues with the upper frame and lower frame being attached to do they tend to stop before reaching the lower top bar?  I don't mind them filling space so long as they don't go attaching pieces that are separate for good reason.   :)
These were single level nuc's. But if you do end with comb that go into the box below it (left a frame out) you can just do the same thing. Cut and rubber band.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain