Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 23, 2014, 10:01:26 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat(3)  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Can a bottler also be used as a wax melter?  (Read 930 times)
D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1060


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« on: December 11, 2013, 05:07:30 PM »

Finished my 2013 purchases and I'm already looking at next years wish list "big items".  On both Maxant and Dadant they indicate their bottler can also be used as a wax melter.  I understand the need for different valves, ball for wax, no drip for honey.  However, assuming the valves have been switched out, does one use preclude the use of the other for this machine?  How would I effectively get the all of the wax out to turn it into a bottler, does it matter?  Keeping up with my 4 gallon pails with spigots is no longer time effective.  I want to get a couple bottlers dedicated for my respective harvests.  Do I need a dedicated wax melter or can I multi use one of the units?

I was unable to keep up with processing my harvest cappings this year with my solar wax melter and am looking at other way to skin that cat.  Ideas would be appreciated.

Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
Jim 134
Super Bee
*****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 2213


Location: Hinsdale, New Hampshire 03451 USA


WWW
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2013, 05:24:48 PM »

IMHO sounds like you need to call Maxant
The factory it is in Ayer,Massachusetts USA which is about 1 hour East for me.  
I would call during normal business hours for the East Coast.
I do not know where the factory is for Dadant  huh


http://www.maxantindustries.com/contact-us.html





                     BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1060


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2013, 09:20:18 AM »

I've already been in touch with Jake at Maxant.  He's a good guy and they've got strong customer service.  I've enjoyed buying equipment from them.  I bought a Maxant uncapping tank early 2013 Spring and I'm awaiting delivery of a Maxant chain uncapper that I ordered 3 weeks ago.  Got to burn profits off before the tax man cometh.  I was looking for other beekeepers who had experience with using one of these machines for both applications to learn how practical they are in both rolls.
Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
merince
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 130

Location: McClure, OH


WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2013, 10:06:39 AM »

In my experience once you use something for wax, from then on it is used for wax only - mostly due to the cleanup involved. While technically you can use them for both, in reality you will find out that you use it just for one or the other.

This might be helpful (with the how-to): Maxant bottling tanks that have been used as wax melters by candlers
Logged

D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1060


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2013, 11:17:50 AM »

You hit the nail on the head there Merince.  That's my exact concern as well.  While it can be used for multiple uses, my question to anyone who uses one is it real world practical?  Your link does bring me some confidence that it can be done.  Thanks!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 11:27:55 AM by D Coates » Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
merince
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 130

Location: McClure, OH


WWW
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2013, 11:33:24 AM »

I would think that since extracting is a very busy time, one wouldn't want to take the extra time to clean between uses. Most wax also contains propolis, wood chips, etc (if it comes from cappings, you will get the scrapings, too). My impression is that whenever this topic pops up that most people have done it about once and then gave up due to the cleanup.
Logged

danno
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2237


Location: Ludington, Michigan


« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2013, 12:34:31 PM »

I would think you would also have to get a heated valve or the first time you open then close it the wax will plug it solid.   Most likely no valve at all would be the best way to use one of these.    You will also find that your chain uncapper is going to take alot of honey with the capping and you would need a way to seperate it from the wax.   I have 2 kelly bottling tanks and 2 kelly wax melters.   The wax melters  work very well.   Wax and honey free flow into a square buckets that have a weir and honey port on them.  Melter honey comes out black and is only good for cooking
Logged
D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1060


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2013, 06:03:57 PM »

Thanks Danno,

The slumgum, cocoons, propolis and general crud is what I just can't see being able to quickly get out of a bottler, hence this whole discussion.  I've already targeted a Maxant Jr. Cappings spinner as my first big purchase for my 2014 books to go along with the new chain uncapper.  I'm on the fence on a wax melter or a bottler later on in the year.  Being able to kill 2 birds with one stone would be nice but I can't help think Merince is right that it can be done but a person would only do it once.
Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
Jim 134
Super Bee
*****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 2213


Location: Hinsdale, New Hampshire 03451 USA


WWW
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2013, 09:10:58 PM »

Thanks Danno,

The slumgum, cocoons, propolis and general crud is what I just can't see being able to quickly get out of a bottler, hence this whole discussion.  I've already targeted a Maxant Jr. Cappings spinner as my first big purchase for my 2014 books to go along with the new chain uncapper.  I'm on the fence on a wax melter or a bottler later on in the year.  Being able to kill 2 birds with one stone would be nice but I can't help think Merince is right that it can be done but a person would only do it once.

Take a look at this this may be some you might be able to use is a Kelly vibrating knife and it looks like a Maxant Cappings spinner below in my opinion a lot better than the chain uncapper
I also believe you have to have a steam generator for this system

Extracting line in our honey house.


 
               BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Jim 134
Super Bee
*****
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 2213


Location: Hinsdale, New Hampshire 03451 USA


WWW
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2013, 09:23:09 PM »

Found another video or two. (hope this works).

http://s440.photobucket.com/user/kgroberts24601/media/Honeyextractionwithhotblade.mp4.html

And another site with pictures showing one. It even shows a "Better Way" honey and wax separator that I mentioned in another thread!

http://www.pacificcrestapiaries.com/id33.html


             BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2210


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2013, 10:25:30 PM »

 Jacket tanks clean up very easily -I run wax in mine -problem is for a full 16 gal tank
(4 gal of water ) the rest wax it takes a long time to heat -several hours-always run
water to clean the honey -I run 4 gal of water and i get about 1 gal of honey-this way
the first 5 gal bucket is water and honey-the rest is wax-to strain the wax i take a 5 gal bucket
and cut the first 8 inches from the top-this will nest into another bucket-in-between these is a layer
of burlap-this cleanse the wax as it runs through this colander type set up-at the end of the run
put a little water in the bottling tank-about a inch-while tank is warm wipe it out with a rag-
next day the slum-gum and wax pulls right off the bottom thanks to the water that was added at the end
   I looked into get a larger element that would pull 2000 watts versus the 1500 watts that size tank
uses-but they are longer elements and wont fit in that size tank-but to answer your question yes you can run wax in your bottling tank very easy-here is a pic of the tanks i run and the wax after one run from one tank
this will give you a idea of what they will do--RDY-B
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/1000194k.jpg/
 
Logged
D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1060


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2013, 05:57:05 PM »

Thanks Jim but the horse is out of the barn.  I received my chain uncapper on Friday.


rdy-b Interesting.  How does the honey not completely mix with the water?  Do you also use your bottler as a bottler or a wax melter only?
Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2210


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2013, 10:47:47 PM »

 the honey that the capping contain mixes with the water and is waste-my capping are run through
the capping spiner-this means that i have saved as-much of the honey as i can -chain uncapper sits ontop of the sr spinner
what you need to know about this spinner is it is a accumulating deighsn-this means to get the capping completely dry
is not always easy if you run a large run-the sr spinner set up as a combo will do 90 boxes before it needs to be emptied
it takes several hours of spinning these capping after you have stooped your run-this means if i only let it spin for a extra 45 minutes there will be more honey left in the cappings-a huge amount of honey is recovered from this spinner as the run as it
is spinning and -dont even try to mach up to a jr spinner--set it up as a combo-make everything work for your system-i had longer legs put on the spinner when it was made-so you can use a bucket-or you dont have to set your sump in a hole in the floor to dump in to the top-to much plumbing is not to your advantage-the guy in the vid is not set up best for this equipment to much plumbing to keep clean means he is seeding his new crop with small amounts of crystallized honey that was trapped in the system-that makes your honey crystalize prematurely- my bottling tanks do wax at the end of the season before it gets cold-the rest of the time they are dedicated to bottling
just change the valve to a ball valve with a elbow and short down turn and your set

hers a pic of most efficient way to set up-the less plumbing the better---RDY-B
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/1000203.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/1000195p.jpg/
Logged
D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1060


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2013, 10:18:51 AM »

rby-b,

I really appreciate that.  Your set up is nice, minimalist and compact.  I looked at the senior spinner set up and simply can't justify $2,500 in additional cost above the Jr. at this point in my thinking.  I went with the double drain tank for under the chain uncapper with the idea I'd get the Jr. spinner and now a couple 16 gallon bottlers in 2014.  This is assuming decent weather, good bee build up and honey production, sales, and profit margins hold in '14 as they did this year.  

I've only got 20 hives with 5 more that were just delivered awaiting assembly.  I don't see going above 25 for another 10 years until the kids are out of the house.  Is that a Dadant 60 frame extractor?  I've got a "pre-owned" Dadant 20 frame that I restored and updated the electric motor on and the Maxant version of the uncapping tank.  Uncapping is my bottleneck that's why I got the chain uncapper.  I can fit 36 super frames in my extractor.  

With your experience, is the uncapper going to switch my bottleneck back to my extractor?  I'm fine with that but curious.  I went from a 2 frame reversible hand crank to the 20 frame.  The time savings was enormous and if it's the new bottleneck there's been another quantum increase in time saving.
Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2210


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2013, 03:21:28 PM »

Dadant 20s are great machine and will move alot of honey fast for you-your next botoleneck will be if you run buckets or are going to pump your honey from a sump-after you start to pump you will want a biger extractor-
for the amount of hives you are talking about the twenty will be fine-and you could always run another twenty
and do the buckets-would open production up --RDY-B
Logged
sc-bee
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1863


Location: Edgefield, SC


« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 08:18:16 PM »

Just curious. With twenty hives why not use a slick side 55 or 30 gal drum with a propane burner. Fit drum with a valve to drain the underneath water after the wax sits. You need the slick side drum to dislodge the wax round.

Of course if you need to spend the money to keep the tax man at bay.......
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 08:28:30 PM by sc-bee » Logged

John 3:16
D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1060


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2013, 09:49:32 AM »

I'm looking to see if I can kill 2 birds (3 actually) with one stone with a dual purpose a machine.  Most importantly I want to save time.  Melting cappings in volume in the sun isn't consistent, bottling in volume out of buckets is inefficient.  Modifying a 55 gallon drum and heating it with a burner involves time and a learning curve (more time).

Keeping the tax man at bay is the 3rd bird.  In a couple years I'll run out of time saving equipment to buy but by then I'll have one heck of a time efficient extracting operation.

Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
sc-bee
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1863


Location: Edgefield, SC


« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2013, 08:42:11 PM »

Melting cappings in volume in the sun isn't consistent, bottling in volume out of buckets is inefficient.  Modifying a 55 gallon drum and heating it with a burner involves time and a learning curve (more time).

I understand your stated purpose. But the drum method is not much of a leraning curve. Fit a drum with a valve. Fill drum partialy with water and add you cappings. Throw the flames to it and melt it. Most of the trash falls to the bootom of the round. The round dries floating on top of the water bath. Drain the water from underneath and dislodge the round.
An old timer buddy of mine has a kelly wax maelter but prefers this method. He takes the large wax round and sells it for $2 a pound to Nuns at a convent. They process it futher into candles for resale.
Logged

John 3:16
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.403 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page July 19, 2014, 01:36:21 AM
anything