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Author Topic: Newbee here Questions  (Read 784 times)
labradorfarms
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« on: December 08, 2013, 07:29:05 PM »

I am looking into starting to learn Bee Keeping this coming New Year.. So I figure I need to ask questions now....

First one I got is.. What race of Bee is best for a beginner, but fends off Mites etc better.
I have read up a little and the Italians seem to be recommended more for newbees.
The Russians seem to more res to mites and so on though..
I thought I was settled on a Italian but am not sure.

Next question what hive is best? A 8 or 10 frame ? Would the hives be stronger and less prone to swarm with a 10 frame?  
I understand the 10's are heavy.
Last question>>>>>
How much honey can I expect to get from a first year hive?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 07:41:33 PM by labradorfarms » Logged
Moots
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2013, 07:57:48 PM »

I am looking into starting to learn Bee Keeping this coming New Year.. So I figure I need to ask questions now....

First one I got is.. What race of Bee is best for a beginner, but fends off Mites etc better.
I have read up a little and the Italians seem to be recommended more for newbees.
The Russians seem to more res to mites and so on though..

Next question what hive is best? A 8 or 10 frame langstrom? I want my hives to be as strong as possible to make more honey and defend itself/

Personally, I wouldn't get too caught up in the "what race of bee question".  I'm just a year in and remember my early research, thinking that was a big issue.  The more I talked to local beeks, I realized that most aren't really concerned with that...Bees are bees to a large degree.  I decided to go with Nucs instead of packages and purchased local survivor stock....bascially Mutt bees, that have showed an ability to survive in my region   Smiley

Everything since then I gathered from swarms and cut out calls...They are Honey Bees, that's about all I can tell you about them.

There is a guy in our LBC that bought some Russians, he says they're mean as Hell, whatever that's worth.  Smiley

As to equipment, I went with all 8 frame medium equipment.  As with most any decision, there are pros and cons.  On the all mediums, I like the standard equipment allowing the ability to move frames around, as well as the weight savings.  The only downside I really know is  increased equipment cost, but the extra money you spend is still cheaper than back surgery.  grin

As to 8 verses 10 frames, I prefer 8...Again weight savings and it's a better width for the bees, less of an issue having to encourage them to draw the frames on the edges. A little of a cost issue, technically, you'll need more boxes to hold the same number of frames.

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iddee
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2013, 08:44:47 PM »

""Again weight savings and it's a better width for the bees,""    That's your opinion. I think a 10 frame deep is best for the bees.

  As everything in beekeeping, it's all based on location and personal opinion or preference.

Race of bee? I agree with moots. Survivor stock from your area.

Woodware? Study them all and choose for you? I like the 10 frame deeps, with medium supers if you only have a few hives. 10 frame deeps for supers if you plan to have many hives and hired help.
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Moots
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2013, 09:37:13 PM »

""Again weight savings and it's a better width for the bees,""    That's your opinion. I think a 10 frame deep is best for the bees.


Yes it is iddee, my bad...I sort of thought it was implied that what I was offering was simply my opinion.

However, I thought it was accepted for the most part that they'll draw out the end frames in a box of 8 more readily than in a box of 10...just thought the question was if that "pro" outweighed the "cons" of going that route. 

Curious, why do you think a 10 frame setup is best for the Bees?

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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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iddee
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 09:56:24 PM »

L. L. Langstroth said it was. That's good enough for me, and probably a few billion boxes tested over the years.

PS. I'm old and kinda stuck on the tried and true.   grin
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2013, 10:31:00 PM »

L. L. Langstroth said it was. That's good enough for me, and probably a few billion boxes tested over the years.

PS. I'm old and kinda stuck on the tried and true.   grin

Hmm...I was hoping for a little more.

When asking why is something done a certain way, I've never been a huge fan of "Because that's the way we've always done it" as an answer.

But again, that's simply my opinion.  grin
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 11:05:26 PM by Moots » Logged

"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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MsCarol
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2013, 11:08:33 PM »

Quote
When asking why is something done a certain way, I've never been a huge fan of "That's the way we've always done it" as an answer.

There is more then one of us out here. grin

"Traditionally" in this country men did the "heavy lifting". Not so true any longer.

When I was 16 -20 girl I could hoist and carry 100#+ as a girl. I am now a few + years older, and maybe just maybe a slight bit wiser. Although this is a new venture for me, I would like to be ABLE to continue this new adventure for a few more years. I opted 8 mediums. Maybe a guy can take on 10 mediums to the grave. I opted a different approach......

But I never was one to stay in ANY box. evil
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10framer
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 12:01:07 AM »

when i started everybody ran 10 frame double deeps with queens raised by a handful of big time queen rearing operations and half of those were started with stock from one of the other guys.  and at that time that worked.
now the best bet is to find local survivor stock.  in the south you'll most likely find that stock to be italian-carni mutts.
as you get into this money pit of a hobby you'll find that you have almost no choice but grow with it.  after one season you should know who your performers are and those are the bees you want to raise your next generation of queens from.
as far as equipment goes i run 10 frame and 5 frame.  the bigger choice will be whether you run deeps or all mediums, the difference in lifting a full deep vs a full medium is greater than between 8 or 10 frames. 
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iddee
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 07:54:57 AM »

When I bought my 400 lb. weight lifting set, I did NOT pick it up in one box and carry it home. If I have a full deep of honey, I will not pick it up, no more than I would lift a double deep with 2 supers.

SURPRISE, folks, a deep consists of a box and 10 frames. It is NOT one integral unit.

Bees prefer one comb vertically, several combs horizontally. That's the way BEES have done it for thousands of years. Only man decided to limit comb vertically. IMHO, that should be kept to a minimum

 
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 01:45:29 PM »

When I bought my 400 lb. weight lifting set, I did NOT pick it up in one box and carry it home. If I have a full deep of honey, I will not pick it up, no more than I would lift a double deep with 2 supers.

SURPRISE, folks, a deep consists of a box and 10 frames. It is NOT one integral unit.

Bees prefer one comb vertically, several combs horizontally. That's the way BEES have done it for thousands of years. Only man decided to limit comb vertically. IMHO, that should be kept to a minimum

 

As iddee said earlier, you have to study all the woodenware options and chose what you think will work best for you.  Each has their own advantages and disadvantages, some objective, some subjective.

While moving frames piecemeal certainly can work, I do know there are many times that it's both nice and convenient to be able to simply move a box full of frames as an integral unit.
As to whether or not bees are truly happier on a deeper frame, I would guess opinions and evidence vary greatly on that issue....Speaking strictly from my admittedly limited experience, my bees seem to be perfectly happy and do quite well on medium frames.
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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iddee
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2013, 05:39:12 PM »

Moving a deep box of 10 frames can be advantageous at times, but seldom will they be full of honey. In fact, practically never. If they are, I'm going to extract them. There's never a reason to lift a deep full of honey if you aren't a commercial keep.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
Joe D
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 08:40:20 PM »

I'll put my two cents in.   I like the double deep, 10 frame brood chambers, and I like the ten frame shallow supers.  OK I may have two to four supers on at a time before extracting and even then I have done like Iddee.  Have a couple of empty supers to start putting the frames into, those that aren't ready you leave for a little.  A ten frame shallow should weigh close to the same as the eight frame medium.  I have some Russian bees, they aren't mean, I like the Cordivan because of their gentleness.   This is just my opinion.



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rober
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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2013, 11:15:19 AM »

I use 2 10 frame boxes for the bees. my mentor's mentor & my mentor started me using metal frame spacers so I'm using 9 frames in 10 frame boxes. I've only heard of 3 other people who do this. even with 10 frames the weight should rarely be an issue since the brood boxes are never full of honey & are not moved very often. I use medium & shallow boxes for honey supers, again with frame spacers. the spacing does not cost me in terms of honey. the bees build out past the frames so that the comb is nearly touching which actually makes de-capping easier. one of the oldest & most experienced beekeepers in this area ( ted jansen ) started using 5 frame hives & supers when everything else got to be too heavy for him. he'll be missed as he passed away this year. on the other end of this Michael bush modifies his frames so that he can get 11 frames in the brood boxes. so I guess it boils down to whatever works for you. you should start with at least 2 hives. it's good to have the option of 'borrowing ' brood from a strong hive to bolster a weak hive.
 as far as 1st year honey crops there are so many variables that you never know. new hives are building comb when established hives are making honey. most of the time you'll get no honey the 1st year. my 1st year I started with 3 hives. 1 was really strong & I got 2.5 gallons from it. none from the other 2.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2013, 04:19:34 AM »

When I bought my 400 lb. weight lifting set, I did NOT pick it up in one box and carry it home. If I have a full deep of honey, I will not pick it up, no more than I would lift a double deep with 2 supers.

SURPRISE, folks, a deep consists of a box and 10 frames. It is NOT one integral unit.

Bees prefer one comb vertically, several combs horizontally. That's the way BEES have done it for thousands of years. Only man decided to limit comb vertically. IMHO, that should be kept to a minimum

 
iddee.........
Do you have your bees in a Dadant Hive Huh



                               BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley          
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