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Author Topic: R.I.P.  (Read 716 times)
T Beek
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« on: December 06, 2013, 07:06:23 AM »

R.I.P. Nelson Mandela (1918-13)
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Vance G
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2013, 02:06:18 PM »

A good man who in Washingtonian fashion did not make himself El Supremo and could have.  A gentleman who did not become angry and bitter when he had reason.  God rest you Sir.
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kathyp
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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2013, 03:59:41 PM »

a guy who became good.  lots of bad in his past and his associations.  a lot of innocent people lost their lives in all of that.  i know all revolutions are bloody, but there's a reason the ANC was listed as a terrorist group.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2013, 07:21:08 AM »

a guy who became good.  lots of bad in his past and his associations.  a lot of innocent people lost their lives in all of that.  i know all revolutions are bloody, but there's a reason the ANC was listed as a terrorist group.

You couldn't even wait until he was in the ground?  Cry  You are something else…………..) Now, put that JBS Playbook down!! grin

If Mandela was a 'bad' guy and was 'somehow' responsible for the loss of innocent lives while participating in REAL revolution, what does that say about "Saint" Ronnie RAY-GUN, or LBJ, Both BUSH's and OBAMA too?  They look more like mass-murdereres in comparison.  They certainly have more 'innocent' blood on their hands

Terror is still terror regardless who is doing the terrorizing  (asks those on the receiving end).

kathyp; I'd love to know more about your experiences with 'bloody revolutions' and in exchange I'll fill you in on exactly why the ANC was listed as a terrorist group.

"Resentments are like drinking poison and expecting your enemies to die"  Nelson Mandela (this quote has been attributed to Mandela several times over the years but I believe he got it from another author  Undecided)
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2013, 12:41:41 PM »

wow.  talk about assumptions.  do you ever actually process posts, or do you need a reading comprehension class?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2013, 01:11:26 PM »

 I dunno lau hissy fit lau lau wierd thread sheeple Brian chop chop lau says it better than I can, oh my cheeks hurt….can't see the keys to type……is there a mirror handy?…oh my….goodness, let's all KILL the messenger……... huh  Someone give kathyp a mirror  Wink

wow.  talk about assumptions.  do you ever actually process posts, or do you need a reading comprehension class?

 I'm sorry  Afraid I may have gotten a little carried away…….What did I assume?  Only that your historical assertion was perhaps misguided (IMO disrespectful) with unfortunate timing.  That you 'might' know something about revolutions?  I've been reading your posts for several years so I do have an opinion on where you are coming from, what you read, who you listen to, talk to etc…something wrong with that?

I consider you one of the smartest people on Bee Master if you want to know the truth  shocked, especially when you bring facts into the conversation and articulate a rational debate.  Unfortunately it holds also that you slack toward the make-believe realm with certainty a bit too often for me and if I'm here…..I challenge you.  Sorry for that, I know I can be a pain  in the butt…….but don't take it toooo personal  Wink because I question EVERYTHING.  Always have...
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 01:39:08 PM by T Beek » Logged

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T Beek
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 07:12:02 AM »

What I most admired most about Nelson Mandela was his absolute vision of unity.  Not just for South Africa but all the world's people.  Some would/will call that a 'lost' cause, but IMO it is the lost causes that are the ones truly worth fighting for.  And what could represent more of a presumed lost cause than a world filled with unified people? 

I've always admired 'unifiers' both historical and mythological.  They've always become my heroes because of the in common steadfast recognition that we are ONE people, living on ONE world.

I feel honored to have lived during his lifetime….before historians get a hold of 'his' story.

"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, his background or his religion.  People learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."  Nelson Mandela

RIP.
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2013, 12:51:08 PM »

heroes tell us a lot about a person, don't they? 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2013, 12:24:55 AM »

Let's see T-Beek... 27 YEARS IN PRISON, In the US we would call him a felon. When he got out of prison, he could never vote, nor get a firearms license - never.

Sometimes in history you don't need to be assassinated to be a martyr. Slap a smiley face on an old man and all of a sudden you are a hero. I'm not saying this last statement describes Mandela, but the prior paragraph would describe him well.

Does it take a special person to lead people to freedom and arguably equality? Yes, but although we aren't talking about Lincoln (who would be 214 years old if he weren't assassinated by J.W. Booth in 1865) or the Kennedy's or LBJ (probably the least credited of all) and we can't forget the other often jailed black man, M.L. King who was arrested 34 times (sic) but that isn't my point.

People ALWAYS put a face to a cause, it is human nature - much like how people with innate leadership skills are chosen in group or team exercises. It is difficult to MAKE a leader, but it IS easy to create a figure head, I'm talking from Pope John Paul II (who surely had the respect of people FAR BEYOND the Catholic Religion) to other figure heads, as Mandela.

To read the stuff you write, I would think you know all this stuff already. The perfect example (I believe) is that we don't vote for the president, we vote for the president's speech-writers. Yes, kudos to the politician who can pull off the speeches, and goodbye to those who can't.

Classic example in the age of television. George H.W. Bush campaigned from city to city and state to state using the same tired speech that TV viewers saw hours earlier on TV news channels, they grew tired of hearing the same exact speech over and over, whether they caught it live in person, or later on TV, people wanted to hear something different - or at least in a new and refreshing order.

Bill Clinton had more speeches than suits and it won him the election.Clinton's people also noted that Bush could NOT stand a heckler. He would snarl and make the most awful faces - that was his "tell" and everywhere Bush campaigned, Clintoneers would place a few hecklers in the crowd. Because: It takes a lot to win and election, but doesn't take much to lose one. Remember "YEEEEHAAA!!!" I rest my case.

Not taking anything away from Clinton BEFORE you think I'm going there - I grew to like him and to be honest, quite quickly. I fell out of "like" with H.W Bush (as did many Americans) when he bowed down to the UN concerning taking Baghdad. History I'm sure will write it differently, but that is how I remember it, and it must be true - I saw it on CNN - lol.

Mandela was as good as the people who pushed and shoved him into the spotlight. Everyone (without exception) has people working their strings. He, as many historical figures had something in their favor that pushed them toward perceived greatness - his "thing" was frailty, you know the Mother Teresa, Gandhi thing - it worked well for Mandela and his puppeteers (no offense intended) used it well in his behalf.

Okay, I have to say it, yes he was only 95, and why was he struck-down at such a young age - oh the humanities. People act as if they didn't see this coming, he's been near death for months. I will guarantee that all the news services have had their Mandela's dead at __ reels on the shelf for years awaiting his demise.

Likely you think I'm too harsh, all Liberals are offended when you speak less than stellar about a person of color. You see Beemaster as picking on an old r frail (and now dead) black man, but Mandela himself fought for equal rights, not black rights and white rights - or so history will say. But I'll get to the only important issue: is the world a better place thanks to Mandela - yes. And frankly, that is the important issue, not that he was imprisoned for 27 years, but that when he exited back into society, the right people knew how to spin him into a historical figure.

It is rare in a persons life to see great people, I can only think of a handful of great ones, but many incredibly brave people who have reached the honored spot of HERO. I know that to many people Mandela is a Hero and who am I to judge otherwise.

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