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As part of "normal" setup - Opinion on Queen Excluders

Have always used
7 (14.9%)
Started without, but now use
2 (4.3%)
Have never used
18 (38.3%)
Started with, but stopped using
11 (23.4%)
Run some hives with / Some without
9 (19.1%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: POLL - Queen Excluders  (Read 1934 times)

Offline Moots

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POLL - Queen Excluders
« on: December 03, 2013, 05:01:07 PM »
There's an active thread on the topic of Queen excluders...got me curious as to what the breakdown might be concerning their, normal routine use.

As I tried to make clear in the question...I know a queen excluder is a tool that's handy to have around and can be used in limited applications for a number of different purposes.  For the sake of this poll, that's not what I'm defining "use" as...I'm talking about on your run of the mill, status quo, normal everyday beehive, do you keep a queen excluder in place?

Thanks for participating....  :)
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Offline dirt road

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2013, 12:21:42 AM »
No...almost never use them, though I keep 1 or 2 around.

Offline T Beek

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 05:28:46 AM »
On the rare occasion that I want to confine or locate the queen or for producing cut comb.  That's about it.

"rarely" or 'as needed' should be a choice.
"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Offline Moots

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 05:45:52 AM »
On the rare occasion that I want to confine or locate the queen or for producing cut comb.  That's about it.

"rarely" or 'as needed' should be a choice.

T Beek,
I see your point...But maybe it's a misassumption on my part, but I think most everyone thinks they have a place and serve a purpose at least some times.  As I said for purposes of this poll, I was really trying to distinguish the separation between those that consider them a "normal" part of their setup for a typical hive as compared to those that don't.

Besides, I think everybody considers their use of them as "as needed" whether that be all the time or on rare occasions....If they didn't view it as "needed", seems like they wouldn't be using it.  ;)
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan

Offline T Beek

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 05:57:54 AM »
OK……. but I'm not as certain as you are   ;)  I've only been messing with bees since the 70's….and I've known many BEEKS who 'never' use excluders.  And some who 'always' use them.  Go figure.

Hey, its 'your' poll do what you want……….. :-D
"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Offline Moots

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 06:11:05 AM »
OK……. but I'm not as certain as you are   ;)  I've only been messing with bees since the 70's….and I've known many BEEKS who 'never' use excluders.  And some who 'always' use them.  Go figure.

Hey, its 'your' poll do what you want……….. :-D

T,
And this poll has an answer for both of those groups..."have never used" and "have always used" respectively. 

I think the gray area or confusing part is that the rare and occasional use gets lumped in with the "have never used" for the purpose of my poll.  Maybe a bit confusing, but as I said....I was just trying to identify those that consider it as part of their "normal" everyday hive setup.

Perhaps I could have better worded or thought out the choices...but I hate to start changing the options now, mid stream.  :)

Maybe I'll kick of a new queen excluder poll with three options...

Almost always
Rarely, only as needed for special situations
Never / virtually never

Thoughts?
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan

Offline T Beek

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 06:43:37 AM »
You explain precisely why I didn't vote, but only offered commentary.  Thinking things through usually garners the best results IMHO.  Open combat may be the only exclusion  :)

I think you're on the right track now...
"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Offline Moots

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 09:59:00 AM »
You explain precisely why I didn't vote, but only offered commentary.  Thinking things through usually garners the best results IMHO.  Open combat may be the only exclusion  :)

I think you're on the right track now...

T Beek
You and I can't even agree on a simple internet poll...I'M SHOCKED!  :-D

While I acknowledge and get your point, there's no reason for you to have not voted in this poll.  As I clearly explained, I wasn't interested in identifying rare or occasional use with this poll.  I simply wanted to know if you use it as part of "YOUR REGULAR HIVE SETUP"?

Now you've stated that you use them rarely....So, either that's always been the case, so you should select "Have never used"....Or, at some point you used to use them as part of your regular hive setup, but have since switched to only rarely....So you should select "Started with, but stopped using".  

PERIOD, It's really not any more complicated than that!  :laugh:

The other poll options we discussed would answer a different question...It's also an interesting one I think...Just not the one I was trying to get answered here...And that was by design, not because I didn't think it through.
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan

Offline 10framer

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 10:57:45 AM »
well, if we can split hairs i want "almost always use them".  just kidding, but my average set up includes an excluder during honey flows.  

Offline T Beek

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 11:01:47 AM »
Are you ever satisfied?  

I didn't vote because "YOU" didn't provide a category suitable to my own use, many others to I suspect.  How many VOTES have you gotten so far  :?  How many 'looked' but didn't bother to vote?

I vote "RARELY" OK???????????  There's no check box for that…..Jeeze louize….. :roll:

Like I said "its your poll do what you want"  (anything besides putting words into my mouth that is  ;))
"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Offline Moots

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 11:47:16 AM »
Are you ever satisfied?  

I didn't vote because "YOU" didn't provide a category suitable to my own use, many others to I suspect.  How many VOTES have you gotten so far  :?  How many 'looked' but didn't bother to vote?

I vote "RARELY" OK???????????  There's no check box for that…..Jeeze louize….. :roll:

Like I said "its your poll do what you want"  (anything besides putting words into my mouth that is  ;))

Thanks, I DID!  :-D

How's the old saying go...."You try to make something idiot proof, and they just build a better idiot!"  :laugh:

Just curious..."EXACTLY" what words did I put into your mouth?  :?

And just for the record, You're the only one so far that has WHINED about the choices offered!  :'( :'( :'(

Hard as it might be,  :roll: I think I'll still manage to get to sleep tonight knowing my poll choices didn't meet your approval.  :-D

Hope you have a great day...
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan

Offline hjon71

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2013, 05:55:11 PM »
Moots - the poll is fine as is.
If someone can't understand its simplicity , I wouldn't worry about it.
Quite difficult matters can be explained even to a slow-witted man, if only he has not already adopted a wrong opinion about them; but the simplest things cannot be made clear even to a very intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows, and knows indubitably, the truth of the matter under consideration. -Leo Tolstoy

Offline T Beek

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 07:20:48 PM »
Human beings, particularly BEEKS and their vast variety of beekeeping methods are not so easy to categorize as some might assume.  This fact is a fatal flaw in many (most?) polls, not just this one.  That's not meant to offend anyone.  It is what it is.  Polls can only be trusted to a point.  Extra Care must be taken to assure that an 'objective end result' is credible and/or useful somehow.  The 'pollster' should NEVER tell someone taking it 'how to answer' a question.  It invalidates the process and may cause suspicion about the reasons behind the poll.  Again, I'm not suggesting anything sinister about THIS poll, just polls in general. 

Does anyone know what I'm talking about?   Does anyone care?  :laugh: :laugh:

Sometimes things are much more complicated than one can even imagine.  Most times IMO. 

EXAMPLE; Sometimes a helping hand is mistaken for a threat and the hand is bitten.  So it goes…….ahhh……….acceptance  ;)

"There are few things in the universe that can be put neatly in a box or categorized without certain adjustments to old perspectives and preconceived notions."

Just saying……..(is this some kind of bait n switch ploy  :?  :-D)   Sorry it was not my intent to HIGH JACK this deal, but when opportunity knocks and confusion reigns, well……... :)
"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Offline Moots

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2013, 07:33:12 PM »
Moots - the poll is fine as is.
If someone can't understand its simplicity , I wouldn't worry about it.

hjon,
That simple fact is becoming more and more obvious, I might even describe it as PAINFULLY obvious!  :laugh:...Thanks!  ;)
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan

Offline capt44

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 09:41:38 PM »
I use a queen excluder for queen rearing, such as a cloake board or a Timing Box.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline 10framer

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2013, 11:05:18 PM »
now i'm curious about how many of the people that have never used them have advised others that the bees won't go through them.

Offline Moots

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2013, 11:09:28 PM »
now i'm curious about how many of the people that have never used them have advised others that the bees won't go through them.

10,
Interesting Question...

I'd be curious to hear from the 5 people who selected "Run some hives with / Some without"....Seems like they would be able to give a fair observation on how much, if any, of a difference they see in honey production between hives with and hives without an excluder.
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan

Offline 10framer

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2013, 02:36:57 AM »
my two most productive hives had excluders last year.  i never would have contained one of the queens without it.  i pulled excluders back in september and that queen started laying in the medium that was above the excluder within a few days.  that's going to be one of the queens i graft off of in the spring.  we used to run between one and two thousand hives with excluders and got an average of 5 or 6 mediums with them.  we ran double deeps and we usually pulled re-supered then pulled again.  then we requeened in august and left them alone until maybe this time of year and then started feeding.  
about 15 years ago i was running 20-ish hives without and i probably averaged 4 mediums but the majority of what i got was probably from privet where it used to mostly come from tulip poplar and clover.  every now and then you'd get a few supers of privet.  we also got a lot more sumac in certain yards.  i'm not saying that not running excluders lowered production but that the change in habitat did.  i'm also not convinced that an excluder slows a strong healthy hive down during a good flow.  if you're only going to run 20 or 30 hives you could do it without.  if you decide to run 200 or 300 i think having them cuts out a lot of time consuming labor.  

Offline T Beek

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2013, 07:50:41 AM »
now i'm curious about how many of the people that have never used them have advised others that the bees won't go through them.

10,
Interesting Question...

I'd be curious to hear from the 5 people who selected "Run some hives with / Some without"....Seems like they would be able to give a fair observation on how much, if any, of a difference they see in honey production between hives with and hives without an excluder.

It is the Nectar 'flow' that is most important.  The excluder is what is is, a tool, and it can be used for several different purposes, usually resulting in 'confining' queens to a particular area of the hive.  During a flow some BEEKS don;t want queens laying in the new honey comb, others don't care or mind, a different strokes concept  ;)

When a flow is on, bees (healthy, strong colonies) 'will' make honey, regardless of the obstacles (including Q excluders) BEEKS place before them, hence the reason some Beeks use excluders ONLY exclusively when a flow is on and/or they are producing 'cut comb honey'  I've seen little difference in actual honey production over the years using or not using them, but as said already, I use them 'rarely' and for a 'specific' purpose (each to their own I say).

If properly manipulated even a medium sized swarm will make some great comb honey in short order.  Yummy  :)  IMHO that is the best use of an excluder. 

I completely agree w/ 10Framer in that the 'number' of colonies being managed will dictate whether using excluders are helpful or a hindrance.
"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Offline merince

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Re: POLL - Queen Excluders
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2013, 11:59:36 AM »
I answered "Run some hives with / Some without", because I use them on the hives that I use for queen rearing, but I don't use them on hives for honey production.

 

anything