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Author Topic: Interesting video  (Read 4456 times)
OldMech
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« on: November 22, 2013, 10:01:21 AM »




Bees kill Varroa mites - hygienic behavior - ResistantBees.com


     I have heard that knowledge is power.. so i spend  lot of time looking up things I need to learn about, and came across this video...
   It interested me because it put together several of the things I had been thinking as I watched other videos and read books and posts.. its an Austrian video translated, but its done well, and references both Dee and Michael.   

   In my reading and watching... I came across a site where the author explained that bees do NOT build small cell.. he PROVED this by giving his large cell bees a foundation-less frame and letting them build their own cells.. then he measured those cells which turned out to be around 5.1...    which proved that small cell was completely false...
   I referenced a few sites to him, and tried to explain what he did wrong in a single short Email..    He informed me if I contacted him again I would be speaking to the police for harassment...   I hardly think one polite Email constitutes harassment..  but I desisted and left him alone...   The point of the story is.. if you are that type of person, one who refuses to consider possibilities, then there is no point in you watching or replying. Please continue as you are..  If you are however, even slightly more open minded.. please watch, and let me know what you think.

  Initially. I believed the reasons behind small cell was that there was not enough ROOM in the cell for the varoa, and that made no sense to me.. I finally figured out it had more to do with the TIME from laying to hatching being about a day shorter...   But this is the first I have heard about hygenic behavior being attributed specifically to small cell..     
   I am interested in hearing your experiences or seeing more videos that get more involved..

     Michael.. you were referenced as someone who TESTED this small cell hygenic behavior with normal bees..... is this on your site or in your book? I have not seen it but may have overlooked it.

   I am using foundation-less, and rotating out the plastic on the few that still have it..    NOT because of any implied varoa bonus, but more along the lines of being CHEAP and not wanting to buy foundation, as well as the fact that it allows me to cut out comb honey, and queen cells. It allows me to rotate out the wax every three years by simply cutting out the frame and dropping it back into the box...     
    I will know more next year, as I intend to test all of the theories and methods apparently proven by others by checking my natural comb bees in comparison to those I have that are still on large cell plastic...
 
   Please dont start ranting here. I would prefer a good argument, it teaches us all things, while someone standing on a pedestal yelling only drives everyone away.

   Scott
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OldMech
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2013, 11:22:13 PM »

No one willing to stick their necks out on this?


   I do have to say that figuring an extra 20K cells per box using small, or natural cell is impressive, at least to me. If only half of the claims are true..  HALF.... then why wouldnt people want to try it?
   I'm using foundation-less.. I was told by at least two dozen people it wouldnt work..   So far, it IS working...   Once I have 100 hives, maybe it wont work, it may be too much for me to handle.. Maybe 40 hives will be too much..   I dont KNOW, until I get there...   Just like not treating.. I wont KNOW until I get there.. but it would sure help if those experienced would talk about it..   At this point It would be worth a lot to me to be able to spend just a week working hives with someone who followed this progression so I could pick their brains.
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rwlaw
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2013, 06:59:34 AM »

 I only had time to partialy watch the video, he's a bit all over the place. Comparing two species of bees is a bit like the apples & oranges, but maybe that comes later.
 The only two ways I know of regressing bees is to cull comb until you have a brood chamber of smaller cells or introduce small cell foundation.
 If you haven't found it already, (besides Michel Bush) Dennis Murell @ natural bees.com ( now talking stick/bees.com) has regressed his bees and gives some good read also.
 
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OldMech
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2013, 10:27:31 AM »

Thanks rwlaw.. I like new places to research
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 07:59:34 AM »

Thanks for posting this OldMech. I watched the whole video. Very informative. Before this video, I didn't think there were any commercial beeks that were not treating there bees.
I am going into my forth winter with out treating. First years were horrible. Last year I increased my hives to 12 going into winter and had 14 in February, got 2 swarms in January. I'm waiting to see how these bees fare this winter with no treatment. I'm hoping it was not just a fluke.
Jim
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OldMech
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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2013, 10:31:21 AM »

I'm glad to hear that you have made it this far. Sawdstmakr.. I cant say I am treatment free yet.. but I would prefer to be.. which is why I study, watch and read everything I can.. I "see" certain things in common with those who claim TF and often wonder why when some try it that they do well, and others fail.. do they fail? Or do they give up too soon? Do their circumstances differ? Or do they just need something to disagree with?
   Within a 100 mile radius of where I live the differences of methods create arguments, so its a given that from one side of the country to the other those arguments will be even greater. The biggest difficulty in beekeeping is that there are few straight paths to follow, and the curvy overgrown paths are hilly and fraught with danger.
   Personally.. I find it difficult to believe that those who claim treatment free are intentionally trying to deceive the rest of us, while at the same time accept that those who Argue so vehemently that it is not possible, and does not work BELIEVE what they say.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2013, 06:48:20 AM »

OldMech,
Yesterday we had our first cold snap and I was checking and cleaning out the oil trays, they are dry. It had been at least 3 weeks since i cleaned them out. I found one hive out of 13 with a couple of mites and it has a lot of what looks like a mite shell. I was going to put those shells under a microscope to see what they are but with family coming in for the big meal it never happened. I also saw the same thing in my observation hive, last night. I did take a good look at the bees in this hive and I could not see a single mite on any of these bees. I did notice that just about all of the bees in this hive are very small. Usually they vary in size from small to large.
Does any one know where they come from? They look like they are shed shells.
I plan on inspecting all of the trays this morning to see if there are any mites, it will bee a  24 hour count.
Jim
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OldMech
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2013, 07:48:19 PM »

Let us know what you figure out about the shells AND the mite count!!
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39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.
sawdstmakr
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 11:17:45 AM »

Let us know what you figure out about the shells AND the mite count!!

After 24 hours, most of my hives had 0 mites in the trays. I had one hive with 3 mites and one with 4 mites. These are all 2 boxes deep or larger hives (either 1 deep and 1 or more mediums or 2 or more mediums).
I have not had a chance to pull out the microscope tho look at the shells.
Jim
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Vance G
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2013, 10:43:46 PM »

I enjoyed the video.  When I restarted beekeeping I surrounded the nucs I got with 4.9 mm Mann Lake plastic frames and regressed them pretty thoroughly as I then cycled the 5.4 out of the brood nest.  I had not mites to speak of that first year and thought I had found that small cell was the answer.  Late the nest summer, I thought I better do sugar rolls on my colonies and was aghast when I found four to six percent mite counts!  I treated with apiguard because I figured I couldn't keep bees if none of them wintered. 

 Now this past season, I found no appreciable mite levels but I attribute it to splitting and brood breaks.  I sure hope the SC is a part of control, but even, if it isn't I like the idea of raising more bees in a smaller brood nest and here in our cold springs, I think that is a real advantage to getting bees built up for the flow.

 I just did my cyber Monday buy on PF 127's and got them for $1.611 apiece delivered and waxed.  Hard to build a frame that cheap and I have little difficulty getting them drawn on regressed colonies.  After they are drawn, it is fairly easy to get a lot of good foundationless frames drawn pretty easily. 
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OldMech
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2013, 12:08:06 PM »


   As I understand it..having low mites in the first year is normal.. its the progressive years that get worse..  My issue is deciding what to do.. or rather WHEN to do it..   There is a fine line that I cant seem to see...

  ..... letting the mites build up until they REACH the point the bees react to them ....
  Sounds great when you read it.. but at what point are the bees reacting, and at what point are they about to crash?  The Ideal response would be NOT to treat if the bees react, and let them handle it.. and TREAT if they do NOT react, or do not react well enough..
   I find it hard to WAIT and take the risk.. without TAKING that risk I think I will not reach the point of being treatment free.  With a LOT more hives planned for spring I will be in a better place to let the bees do their thing...  With two yards I can treat one, and not the other.. so I will have bees to split/repopulate if the untreated all die...  On the other hand.. if I have a few untreated hives that survive.. I can begin making queens and splits from them each year and build up my TF yard.. and eventually begin requeening the bees in my home yard... at least.. thats the plan for now...


 I sure hope the SC is a part of control, but even, if it isn't I like the idea of raising more bees in a smaller brood nest and here in our cold springs, I think that is a real advantage to getting bees built up for the flow.

   I agree 100%..   It MAY help, and it certainly isn't hurting.

   I bought 500 of the PF 127's but use them mostly as guides in between my foundation-less frames.. the bees usually go for the foundation-less first.. in the few cases they didnt I left the plastic installed, and try to rotate the frames through he hive and out so I am always getting extra drawn comb..      I NEVER have enough drawn comb..

   Good price on the frames!!  I needed them so ordered them at regular price.. I need to be more frugal...
 
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Brother Dave
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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2013, 08:29:51 PM »

Great film it is plausable. I am going foundationless so I might see these  benifits in the future



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