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Author Topic: 7 frames in a 8 frame  (Read 1861 times)
Moots
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« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2013, 08:16:18 AM »

Jim,
Thanks for bring this topic back to life, I had kind of forgotten about it.

ug,
Thanks for sharing your theory and calculations...very interesting!

Jim,
I think you make another great point that has been overlooked in this discussion.  Let's for the sake of discussion, concede the fact and say that a 7 frame will produce more honey than an 8 frame.

If you're a small time or hobbyist beek, without a capping spinner, how much of that honey gets lost in the thicker capping and how much do you lose in the harvesting process as compared to the thinner cappings of the frames from the 8 frame setup?

I think folks are constantly trying to build a better mouse trap, they hear that the big boy commercial beeks use one less frame per box, save time and labor, and get more honey....so they do it.
I'm just not convinced that what makes sense for them always translates to the "little guy"

How many Beeks using the "one fewer frame" in the honey super method actually has a capping spinner???

I'm a newbie with plenty left to learn, I've only got two extractions under my belt....But it didn't take me long to figure out a few things....First, there's a bunch of honey left in the cappings.  Second, It's a pain and rather inefficient to try and get that honey out of the cappings.

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edward
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« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2013, 10:28:30 AM »

The honey weight may not differ much with one less frame per box.

If you run many hives and boxes you will save 10-15% in frame Costs and equipment.

All so you will save time and extration effectiveness with the same amount, if you have many hives you will save time, or you will bee able to run more hives.

mvh Edward  tongue
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Jim 134
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« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2013, 05:42:06 PM »

Moots.....
This is what I call a poor man's capping spinner
It depends what kind of extract you have an if you need the Metal Inserts or not if you use a plane knife like Maxant you will be able to set the depth of how much you cut off the capping

Electric Uncapping Plane
http://www.maxantindustries.com/uncapping.html

Extractor Metal Inserts
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/beefarm/productinfo/463/

Capping Bag
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/beefarm/productinfo/587/




                        BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2013, 05:43:56 PM »

I use 9 frames in a 10 frame super because it's easier to uncap.
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Richard Vardaman (capt44)
Jim 134
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« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2013, 05:59:13 PM »

Even if the bees don't adjust the angle of the comb, but keep it the same angle, the fact that the comb is built at an angle will result in loss of volume overall if the cell lengths increase dramatically, don't you agree?  I mean, there will be less room on the frame for the top row of cells, and the bottom row of cells will protrude upwards and the space underneath them will go to waste, don't you agree?  Either way, the amount of wastage (if any) would be little (less than 0.1%, as per my previous post).


And know I do not agree with your theory.

IMHO
It really doesn't make any difference either way once a super gets 75% filled you will be put on the next Unfilled super.  

You do realize you need drawn comb to do this

I believe most guys/gals put ten frames in until they are drawn, THEN space them to 9.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 06:11:45 PM by Jim 134 » Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Jim 134
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2013, 06:33:49 PM »


Jim,
I think you make another great point that has been overlooked in this discussion.  Let's for the sake of discussion, concede the fact and say that a 7 frame will produce more honey than an 8 frame.

IMHO
The honey produced will be very close to same you probably leave more than a 5 gallon pail when you clean out in what the difference will be.

  If you like you may be able to get a hold of someone at Cornell University in New York so you can do a study on this. I doubt very much they will fund you but who knows.





                                 BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley                   
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Moots
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2013, 08:42:44 PM »


  If you like you may be able to get a hold of someone at Cornell University in New York so you can do a study on this. I doubt very much they will fund you but who knows.

             

Jim,
Not sure how to read what your intentions were by this comment.  huh  Don't know if you're being serious or cute...Either way, I'm not concerned enough to request a study, I'm just kicking around ideas and thoughts on a bee forum.  Smiley

I think by taking only a portion on my quote, my point gets lost again.  Like you, I'm not convinced the difference in the amount of honey between the two options are significant.  However, there are those that obviously believe it is.  So, for the sake of discussion I was willing to accept their premise.  TO MAKE THE POINT, that their "extra honey" (real, imagined, or otherwise) has to be in the cappings...AND without an efficient and effective way to extra that honey from the cappings, their "more honey" might actually become "less honey". 
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Jim 134
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2013, 09:21:53 AM »

  I'm very serious you may be able to get a grant for study from a land grant college. I do know in the county beekeeping club I belong to what a few beekeepers do have grant for all kinds of studies including plants ,large animals and yes even honeybees.  The club I belong to is about 15 miles north of the University of Massachusetts yes I am dead serious.  If you'd would like the PM me I do know head of the Agriculture department of the University of Massachusetts I do know he can point you in the right direction if you are interested at all.  Also I do know Director Programs Kenneth Warchol of
Worcester County Beekeepers Association which is in Massachusetts who has done lots of studies for the USDA bee research lab in Beltsville Maryland.   I took a challenge similar to this in 1983 and I'm glad I did it was for the Peace Corps and yes I was farm extension worker with a specialty in beekeeper in North Africa in (RCPV) Tunisia  1983-85.
So if your up for a challenge I will help as much as I can.  
Please don't tell me it cannot be done. You may not be able to do the study you want but you can deflate get involved in one.                        


                         BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 04:33:24 PM by Jim 134 » Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Michael Bush
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« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2014, 03:03:01 PM »

In supers with drawn comb, I would put 7 in an eight frame box.  In the brood nest, I would shave them down and put 9 in an eight frame box.  In the supers with foundation, I would put eight in an eight frame box...
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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