I didn't say frames collapes. We are talking about foundation here not frames
and I will disagree. I hate foundationless. I have tried it. When a colony dies which seems to always happen sooner or later the frames are to fragile and often collapse. ? "Frames" are too fragile? My frames are heavier than anything you will buy that HAS foundation in them.. not too sure HOW a frame collapses... I have seen NEW wax collapse when it was hot and it was mishandled.. but in my mediums I can extract honey by spinning them without blowing them out, so a "frame" collapsing sounds like something wasnt done right???
When a colony dies which seems to always happen sooner or later the frames are to fragile and often collapse.
Well I confuse easily.. My wife manages to confuse me half a dozen times a day so I am used to it...
Fresh new wax is soft, and unless its secured all the way around it takes a lot of care when handling it. (especially when its hot out) Once it starts to darken it is a bit easier to deal with. Even fresh wax that is secured all the way around is pretty stable, but once it hardens a bit it takes a pretty good goof to get it to let go. (like dropping it complete with the bees on board.. NOT good!! yes I have)
I like all mediums because it allows me to move frames around easier, and the wax is more stable, less span, so more strength. Not to mention the fact that I am getting older each day and they are lighter than deeps...
I use the small cell plastic frame/foundation as spacers/guides when starting a new hive, then remove them as they begin to fill out the foundationless frames... I have found that they go very quickly for the foundationless and leave the plastic alone, which allows me to use it as a guide to get them started, then replace the plastic with empty wood frames later.
I had heard a lot of horror stories about foundationless, and it took a bit for friends/local beeks, to get me to use them, Then it took a bit of getting used to "squaring" the odd comb that didnt quite follow the point on the frame... Once that experience was.... experienced, and handled, I am very glad I stuck with it. The versatility of all mediums, and the ability to swap out frames in brood boxes/supers PLUS being able to cut out queen cells or MAKE queen cells to cut out using foundationless had me wishing I had started that way. I only have two hives left with deeps, and by spring I hope to get those swapped out and cut down.
Everyone likes something different, and much of what you do depends on how involved you want to get. Building my own frames costs me .17 cents a frame to make. (IF I have to buy the wood!) The last batch I made numbered 500. At the cost of wood frames and Ritecell.. i saved over 900 dollars on JUST those frames.. which, to me is reason enough to go foundationless.. and I wont get into the other controversial reasons.. suffice it to say, that you should read everything you can, take everything with a grain of salt, and decide how YOU think your bees will benefit the most.. The saying goes, that if you ask two beekeepers the same question, you will get three different answers.. I tend to think that if you asked two beeks the same question twice, you would get eight different answers!!!
The hardest part of being a Beek, is deciphering, translating, and decrypting those answers, and then applying your own method!"
What I posted is working WELL for me... but ask me again in a year.