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Author Topic: Made some candy board frames.  (Read 1488 times)
alfred
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« on: October 22, 2013, 12:54:09 AM »



I wrote in another post that I was going to have to winter feed my hives.
I made these candy frames as an experiment to put into the hives. Very simple to make.

 5lbs Sugar
 3 egg whites
 3 Tablespoons light corn syrup
 Dash of lemongrass oil

 Mix in a bowl until fully incorporated should be the consistency of wet sand. Then pack tightly into frame. Let dry until hard.

 They were much easier and less time consuming to make than hard candy and the girls seem to like them just fine. It is great to be able to put them in the box like a frame. I use mediums so obviously a deep would require a larger batch.

These were inspired by Mexican sugar sculls that my wife makes for Halloween. I thought that it would be great to be able to drop the boards right into the hive like a frame. seems to work great.








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BlueBee
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« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2013, 01:03:36 AM »

Nicely done!  applause

I do hate trying to make hard candy on the stove.  How structurally sound is your candy?  Are those frames really rock hard or might they be prone to collapse over time?  I donít know, Iím asking.  I had tried various air dried mixtures in the past without finding anything that really held together in a vertical frame. 
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Finski
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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2013, 02:36:45 AM »

.
What heck are you doing!!!!

That is not winter food.

5 lbs sugar = one langstroth frame full of food.

egg, the most quick protein to rotten....and you oblige the bees eat it....Bees are not carnivores


From where you got that recipe? - Not at least from XX University Laboratory
I know all Honey bee nutrition reports from google. They are not many but no one recommend to add eggs to patty neither syrup.

Winterfeed to one langstroth box is:

REAL FINTER FOOD
20 kg sugar
pour hot water to the same level what is sugar level
mix
feed from several litre feeding box
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 02:53:00 AM by Finski » Logged

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Finski
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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2013, 02:40:41 AM »

.
Egg white

66% out of egg's mass
10% protein


http://www.fineli.fi/food.php?foodid=852&lang=en
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« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2013, 06:07:40 AM »

I can't see a good reason to use corn syrup. With all the debate about it in the forums, and from keepers, why flirt with i? IF one has to feed sugar at all, I suggest sticking with white sugar and forget all the fancy stuff like eggs, and all that...Go for healthy, natural bee food and bees. We need to get our bees back to nature.......There is enough colony collapse out there. Why create a "new" opportunity?
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« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2013, 06:44:19 AM »

Alfred,

I got some extra band aids for those knots on your head if you need them.., Wink

I would have thought it was a good idea but having just a few months experience I would have ask folks here as well.
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Finski
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2013, 06:50:24 AM »

Sugar has nothing wrong as Winter food.
but what is important is that coloy is able TO store pollen into Combs.
honey has only energy. Other nutritients are in pollen.
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T Beek
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« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2013, 06:54:46 AM »

I can't see a good reason to use corn syrup. With all the debate about it in the forums, and from keepers, why flirt with i? IF one has to feed sugar at all, I suggest sticking with white sugar and forget all the fancy stuff like eggs, and all that...Go for healthy, natural bee food and bees. We need to get our bees back to nature.......There is enough colony collapse out there. Why create a "new" opportunity?

Although I genuinely like the concept of feeding directly with filled frames of sugar I must agree with charlie b, bluebee and even..........the Fin......in this case anyway, although his delivery.................. grin  still needs work.

Sugar and water or sugar, water and honey.  That's all I'm putting in my hives...besides me.
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« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2013, 08:35:39 AM »

Good grief.....it surely looks like several folks got out of bed on the wrong side !

Alfred:   If it works and they took the feed.....that's what counts

S K
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« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 08:50:52 AM »

Good grief.....it surely looks like several folks got out of bed on the wrong side !

Alfred:   If it works and they took the feed.....that's what counts

S K

No offense is intended here but there is no logical reason to 'force' feed honeybees an animal based protein.   They consume enough bad stuff w/out our help (and plenty with our help).  

Put some sugar on it and bees will eat almost anything, to include things not necessarily good for them.

Keep in mind that everyone on this forum has one common goal; the well-being of our and your bees.  Often times, typing on the web lacks the sort of empathetic compassion reserved for face to face conversations, a 'fly in the internet ointment' if you will.  

But push on we must Smiley as lovers of honeybees.
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2013, 09:48:44 AM »

Good grief.....it surely looks like several folks got out of bed on the wrong side !

Alfred:  If it works and they took the feed.....that's what counts

S K

If they take the feed, all hives may die!

What is the matter with you guys: YOu recommend others to something what you have never done yourself!

Is that POSITIVE attitude or " NO RESPONSIBILYTY"

Good heavens, Nice palls really!!!

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alfred
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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2013, 10:09:39 AM »

Wow, I had no idea that this would be so controversial!

The recipe is one that it used to make Mexican Sugar Skulls. The mixture dries to a rock-like hardness which is why I tried it. I was going to make candy boards and thought that this would be easier than all of that cooking.

As to the egg going bad. I have sugar skulls that are several years old and show no signs of mold or decay and still as hard as a rock. The purpose of the egg is to cement the sugar together, it was not added as a protein source. The fact that it does have protein is maybe a plus, regardless I have no concern over the egg going bad.

The corn syrup is in such a negligible amount 2 tablespoons per 5lbs of sugar I can hardly imagine that it is a problem. Like the egg it is added to help stick the mixture together and is in very small amounts.
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alfred
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2013, 10:22:39 AM »

I put the frames down on some foil on top of a board when I was packing in the sugar. You want to pack the sugar in really hard, pressing with the palms of your hands to get it as dense as possible. This way you get a very hard result.

The next batch I do I was thinking of putting in wire to give it better structural integrity.
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Finski
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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2013, 11:00:40 AM »


The mixture dries to a rock-like hardness which is why I tried it.
 

I do not know about your winter. But if there are snow in ground, bees cannot eate dry sugar or rock sugar. They need to get water outside that they can lick the sugar.

When I give pollen patty in April, bees can eate it only if they get water outside.
In the morning it is often that bees not bite the patty, but in afternoon they have got enough water and hundreds of bees are eating the stuff.

I put into patty fructoise. It takes moisture from hive air and keep the patty soft.

If I give too early patty, and bees do not get water, larvae get very bad chalkbrood.
If bees do not get water during one week, all larvae will be destroyed.


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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2013, 11:06:52 AM »

The purpose of the egg is to cement the sugar together, 

What about when the cement gets moisture and it leaks onto bottom board and gets more condensation water.

What is your bet about smell?

If I have urgent lack of food in hives, I pour 66% syrup directly into combs.
If bees need a good dosage, I put 10 kg sugar as syrup into combs.  Then I put the frames into extra box and the box under the brood box. It takes a week when bees move the sugar up.

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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2013, 12:45:47 PM »


If I have urgent lack of food in hives, I pour 66% syrup directly into combs.
If bees need a good dosage, I put 10 kg sugar as syrup into combs.  Then I put the frames into extra box and the box under the brood box. It takes a week when bees move the sugar up.



Thanks for another beekeeping tidbit Finski. I like it.
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Ray
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2013, 02:41:26 PM »


If I have urgent lack of food in hives, I pour 66% syrup directly into combs.
If bees need a good dosage, I put 10 kg sugar as syrup into combs.  Then I put the frames into extra box and the box under the brood box. It takes a week when bees move the sugar up.



Thanks for another beekeeping tidbit Finski. I like it.

Oh yes!  I use a paint brush to put syrup into empty comb when needed and cold.
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2013, 04:48:47 PM »


Oh yes!  I use a paint brush to put syrup into empty comb when needed and cold.

You do that....a water pistol is better. If you get a hit into a cell.

I pour from jug
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2013, 06:00:56 PM »


Oh yes!  I use a paint brush to put syrup into empty comb when needed and cold.

You do that....a water pistol is better. If you get a hit into a cell.

I pour from jug

Sounds like a great way to feed a starving colony in the spring or any time of year down here in the south. Do you think that the same delivery method could be used to feed pollen substitute? Say, mix mega bee in the syrup or dust with brewers yeast? Just asking.
But, not to deviate from the OP, this still qualifies as frame feeding techniques right?

I had another thought, if you don't have drawn comb, how about using a box full of Permacomb as a feeder? As Finski said, filled with sugar syrup, under the brood, bees move the syrup where they need it. Leave it there for a week then remove.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 06:11:25 PM by RHBee » Logged

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Ray
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2013, 10:47:51 AM »

More thoughts,

Just for clarities sake the inclusion of egg whites was not for the purpose of nutrition, it is used as a glue to make the mixture stick and harden. The amount of egg is negligible, only 2 egg whites per 5lbs of sugar.

The same goes for the corn syrup. There is only 2 tablespoons per 5lbs of sugar.

Brewerís yeast, milk powder, soy flour are common ingredients in pollen substitute, Crisco is used in wintergreen patties, and corn syrup is an ingredient in fondant. Donít see how this mixture is too much different in terms of containing foreign protein, fats, and corn syrup.

Alfred
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alfred
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« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2013, 10:56:09 AM »

Putting syrup directly into old comb sounds like a good idea as well. On the Facebook branch of this forum someone said that they simply dunk the empty comb into a bucket of syrup.

One concern that I would have is that wouldn't there be a lot of drip and dribble in the hive from this? For that matter it seems that you could have a lot of syrup spillage around the hive as you put it in. Seems like robbing could be set off very easily this way. Any thoughts or experiences on this?
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« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2013, 11:09:28 AM »

.
I have 8 litre top feeders and I feed hives full for winter. That food will last from September to May.
Average winter food is 20 kg sugar. Thanks to insulated polyboxes.

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« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2013, 10:19:37 PM »

20kg sugar per hive? That seems like a lot of sugar. Wow!
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RHBee
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« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2013, 10:51:42 PM »

Putting syrup directly into old comb sounds like a good idea as well. On the Facebook branch of this forum someone said that they simply dunk the empty comb into a bucket of syrup.

One concern that I would have is that wouldn't there be a lot of drip and dribble in the hive from this? For that matter it seems that you could have a lot of syrup spillage around the hive as you put it in. Seems like robbing could be set off very easily this way. Any thoughts or experiences on this?

The natural comb if the honeybee is built to hold liquid. There is a proper up orientation. The comb slopes upward from the bottom 9to 14 deg.
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Ray
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« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2013, 11:23:15 PM »

1 kg sugar = 3870 Calories of stored potential energy.

1 Food Calorie = 4184 joules.

So Finskiís 20 kg of sugar has the energy content of 323841600 joules.

How many months are the bees couped up?  6 months?

6 months x 30days/month x 24hours/day x 3600 seconds/hour = 15552000 seconds.

1 watt = 1 joule/second.

323841600 joules/15552000 seconds = 20 watts.

20 kg sugar over 6 months = an average cluster energy output of 20watts.
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« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2013, 11:48:40 PM »

Your calculation is correct if all the potential energy is used. Should give a close approximation though.
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Ray
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« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2013, 03:24:48 AM »



323841600 joules/15552000 seconds = 20 watts.

20 kg sugar over 6 months = an average cluster energy output of 20watts.


Your calculation is incorect.

In autumn a normal good hive spends 1-1,5 kg sugar in a month.
It basic temperature in cluster is 23C when you put digital thermometer into the cluster.

Then in spring hive temp rises to 36C when they start to rear brood. High temp and rearing brood rises wat consumption.

In May it spends  4 kg in a week ( 0,5 kg in one day)

My winter season is 9 months when bees live with that 20 kg sugar. There are too 5-10 kg its own honey in the hive.

Yes, guys here have measured the hive weights during winter. Hives stay on balance the whole year,
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« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2013, 03:41:19 AM »


Yes, guys here have measured the hive weights during winter. Hives stay on balance the whole year,


Then you don't have to go into the hive to know the remaining stores.! Right. cheer Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2013, 03:45:02 AM »



Then you don't have to go into the hive to know the remaining stores.! Right. cheer Sorry, I couldn't resist.

oh dear. Oh dear x 50
20 hives and one is on balance.

God bless America!
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« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2013, 07:42:39 AM »

Finski wrote:

"What is the matter with you guys: YOu recommend others to something what you have never done yourself!

Is that POSITIVE attitude or " NO RESPONSIBILYTY""
===================================

First and foremost, don't attribute 'recommendations' to me where none were made.

I merely made two observations: 

1) That it appeared some folks got out of bed on the wrong side, based on responses.

2) And if what Alfred did, worked for him, he has accomplished his goal.

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« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2013, 08:01:59 AM »


2) And if what Alfred did, worked for him, he has accomplished his goal.



Nonsense..

Hen eggs in winterfood is nonsense.

But I know that nonsense fits better to most beekeepers than some reasonable thing.
Beekeepers just love innovative humbug.

Sugar syrup is best winterfood to bees, but guys must invent what ever strange hokkus pokkus.
..

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« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2013, 08:03:00 AM »

Good morning....
 pop pop
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« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2013, 08:05:32 AM »

Good morning....
 pop pop

Afternoon here. 15:04

11C temp, rain. Leaves are off from trees.

Bluebees' thanks giving day honey ball recipe:

(not ment to bees' winterfood)


* 2 tablespoons white vinegar
 * 3/8 cup milk
 * 2 tablespoons shortening
 * 1/2 cup white sugar
 * 1 egg
 * 1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract
 * 2 cups sifted all-purpose flour
 * 1/2 teaspoon baking soda
 * 1/4 teaspoon salt
 * 1 quart oil for deep frying
 * 1/2 cup confectioners' sugar for dusting

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« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2013, 08:35:03 AM »

"But I know that nonsense fits better to most beekeepers than some reasonable thing."

Beekeepers just love innovative humbug."

And some apparently just love disparaging others' success, if it conflicts with their opinions of what is 'correct'.
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« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2013, 08:35:26 AM »

Actually I have BlueBees very simple recipe for honey balls.  THEY WORK GREAT!

Mix dry sugar together with enough of your own honey to create little balls of whatever size you choose.  Place inside hives.  Done.  How simple is that?


NOTICE;  you all know that Finski really lives in Belize, right?  shocked grin grin  laugh
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« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2013, 08:43:06 AM »

"But I know that nonsense fits better to most beekeepers than some reasonable thing."

Beekeepers just love innovative humbug."

And some apparently just love disparaging others' success, if it conflicts with their opinions of what is 'correct'.

I just say, they are your hives. Not mine

.
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« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2013, 08:54:25 AM »


NOTICE;  you all know that Finski really lives in Belize, right?  shocked grin grin  laugh


Now that you mention it... The combination of possibilities of just who "Our friend Finski" really is could be a whole other thread in the "Coffee House" Board. Boggles the mind. My only hope is that he would bring his sense of humor with him and leave his feelings somewhere safe.
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Ray
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« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2013, 09:43:30 AM »

The combination of possibilities of just

Bees stand many kind of beekeepers, but I have said many times that bees in USA try to find a better home = vanished bees  .... then you find feral bees ....so glad..so glad

We had a neigbour who had a dog. We had a sentence: "Vanished a dog, who is afraid of name Lassie".


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« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2013, 09:50:49 AM »


Bees stand many kind of beekeepers, but I have said many times that bees in USA try to find a better home = vanished bees  .... then you find feral bees ....so glad..so glad

We had a neigbour who had a dog. We had a sentence: "Vanished a dog, who is afraid of name Lassie".

Fun Finski, Have Fun. You know play, humor. That kind of thing.
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« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2013, 11:26:44 AM »

alfred,

Thank you for sharing. I want to mention that egg products are a common ingredients in bee patties as they provide a complete set of amino acids. However, they are used in powder form such as dried egg yolk and dried egg whites (both are available in the confectioner's section of any major USA retailer). Those are a good substitute for fresh eggs as fresh eggs can carry contaminants (e-coli and salmonella come to mind).

Usually confectioners in the USA use the powders to prevent spoilage esp in non baked applications such as meringue. Your sugar frames would be a good candidate.
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« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2013, 12:32:26 PM »

Thanks Merince,

I know that the original recipe that my wife used for the Mexican Sugar Skulls used a powdered meringue. I didn't have any around which is why I used egg whites instead. Also I was concerned about whatever other ingredients there might be in the meringue mix. Straight up powdered egg whites might be a good substitute though.
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« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2013, 04:44:14 PM »

Lookee there Alfred! Something positive did roll out from this thread!!! LOL!
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« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2014, 10:28:39 AM »

I thought that I would do some follow up on this thread. I checked on some of the hives that I had put the

candy frames into. All are doing well. Most of the colonies ate some of the sugar, some ate a lot of it, one ate all of it. Here

is a picture of one of the frames after they ate some and built comb into it. Kinda cool pic:



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