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Author Topic: Winterizing  (Read 6357 times)

Offline Finski

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2013, 10:54:50 AM »


Can we get back to winterizing bees now?????????  :-D

I have "winterized" bees 51 years at same altitude as Alaska.
I have no questions about it and I know how to do it.

1-2 boxes of bees and on average 20 kg sugar.

20% spare hives are good.
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Offline T Beek

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2013, 01:24:13 PM »
Much of Northern Wisconsin can be much colder than much of Alaska. 

Latitudes (you did mean latitudes, right?) mean little in many cases.  Much depends on several other variables, not just "lines" some dude drew on the globe.

Successful beekeeping in Finland doesn't always or necessarily spell successful beekeeping in other parts of the World. 

It must be great (and awfully frustrating) to know everything  :-D heh?

Now can we get back to winterizing bees?  :-P  :laugh:
"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Offline Finski

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2013, 01:52:22 PM »
Much of Northern Wisconsin can be much colder than much of Alaska. 


However, from vegatation map I noticed that Alaska is really colder  place than Finland.

A wide tundra belt goes along the whole coast. We have tundra in the upper most Finland.

But Wisconsin is colder! That I just do not believe. It must be then on 4000 m mountains.



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Offline Finski

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2013, 02:01:14 PM »
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 04:59:49 PM by Finski »
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Offline T Beek

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2013, 03:48:58 PM »
Anchorage and Fairbanks both can be balmy when Northern Wisconsin has minus 30F.  During an average winter we can be considerably colder than many parts of Alaska or Finland for that matter.....not like its some kind of competition  ;) .  My point remains that latitudes mean little when comparing weather patterns.

Northern Minnesota gets even colder.  And then we have the UP of Michigan.....well we don't have to go there now do we?  Actually we'll be heading that way soon 8-)
"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Offline Finski

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2013, 04:52:29 PM »


 My point remains that latitudes mean little when comparing weather patterns.



Are you serious? Yes, I studied geography in university too, several years...Lerned something. They we American books.

Like Yakutsk Siberia. Coordinates: 62°N latitude. Almost same as in Helsinki and Anchorage.

Out temp during December - February, all the time 35C-45C

The lowest temp - 72C = -97F

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Offline T Beek

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2013, 05:58:00 PM »
 :deadhorse:  Not sure what it is you're looking for or where you're going with all this, but you win Finski. 

You're right dude!  -97F is much colder than we've ever gotten as long as I've been around Northern Wisconsin.  -42 is our coldest recorded...that particular spell (staying well below zero F) lasted for over 2 weeks...only :-D  went through a lot of wood that month.

So Finski.................What's the point of all this tit for tat you seem to enjoy so much anyway?  Psychologically speaking, it seems pretty clear that its a repetitive, excruciatingly redundant, mean spirited and obviously fear based behavior.  Alas, to be completely honest I'm not sure why I allow you to suck me into this madness all the time, but I'm learning  :shock:

 "A cave is indeed a very dark place"  :)
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Offline Finski

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2013, 08:20:27 AM »
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if Russia were able TO concure finland 70 y ago,
Yakutsk would be the coldest place in Great Finland
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 10:32:02 AM by Finski »
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Offline Finski

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2013, 10:31:24 AM »
:deadhorse:  Not sure what it is you're looking for or where you're going with all this, but you win Finski. 

You're right dude!  -97F is much colder than we've ever gotten as long as I've been around Northern Wisconsin.  -42 is our coldest recorded..

in Finland lowest record is -51C.

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I'm not sure why I allow you to suck me into this madness all the time, but I'm learning  :shock:

On forums men allways try who is a bleep on compost top.
Really stupid debates. But I like to fool guys who are too wise to live ordinary life.

If I would follow these advices, what are given on this forum about wintering, I am sure that I would not have not a single hive alive in spring.

Wintering procedures are simple, when you know what to do, but goooood heavens what carbage guys are able to write ....

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Offline Finski

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2013, 10:38:13 AM »

 "A cave is indeed a very dark place"  :)

Well. The British beekeepers remind me often that British weather is different than Finnish weather.
That is very new to me. I am good friend with British beekeepers but the best in friendship is the 2000 km distance which separates us. I have told to them too, that their beekeeping is very same as Finnish, but they are 50 years behind us. - They just love that idea..


A Finnish National Hive 50 years ago.  No one use them any more,
because hive has no room enough to modern queens.



A British national hive nowadays


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Offline derekm

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2013, 02:38:59 PM »
This is a british design and made hive not a finnish import... The roof is thicker than those imported from Finland

If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?

Offline Finski

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2013, 03:46:22 PM »
This is a british design and made hive not a finnish import... The roof is thicker than those imported from Finland



It would be good, if Britain would have more competition and  own production. Prices are awfull in Br.

But look at the wall. It is 35 mm thick. Finnish is 40 mm.

The price.

British ....£ 102 ...British national jumbo. Stainless steel mesh in floor.
Finnish....£ .36....Langstroth. Price in Finland

They are boath fine. It depends how a beekeeper uses them.

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Finnish price
roof    11
box   .16
floor   15
   42 euros


I make my own roof, inner cover and floor. Price is about 5€. I get a box with 11 euros.
With £ 100 I get 10 langstroth boxes from producer.
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Offline Finski

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2013, 04:04:26 PM »
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Another British plastic hive model, price £ 500 !!!

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Offline OldMech

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2013, 07:08:44 PM »
Yikes!!!   I actually read the whole thread     :shock:      I am still wondering about wintering  LOL!!!    My basic prep is to wrap as the op mentioned with felt paper   Not a good idea?   Has worked moderately well in the past....
   I put a 2" spacer on the top brood box.. paper/sugar.. Inner cover on top of the spacer, flipped so notch is down to provide upper entrance and ventilation. (1" by 3/8 notch in front)  2" foam on top of that cut to fit the hive, and the telescoping cover strapped down on top of that because of the wind here... The foam spaces the cover up enough to allow free access to the 1" notch.

   Moderate losses.. usually not because of wet.    Only gets to about -20 (f) here for about two or three weeks during a normal winter. Bigger problem is blowing snow on a moment to moment basis filling in the bottom entrance... hence the flipped inner cover for top emergency entrance/exit... so can we get back to wintering now??   What do yall do?
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.

Offline GSF

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2013, 08:46:56 PM »
(OldMech)<What do yall do?>

I'll be able to tell you next spring.., I hope my answer isn't "Buy more bees"
"Life is hard, It's even harder when you're stupid."

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Offline BlueBee

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2013, 12:05:16 AM »
It would be good, if Britain would have more competition and  own production. Prices are awfull in Br.

But look at the wall. It is 35 mm thick. Finnish is 40 mm.
 
Didn’t you tell us last year that YOUR hives are only 20mm thick polystyrene (and grow ice sticks) and thicker insulation didn’t make any sense?  Now 40mm is the cats meow?  

Finnish price
roof    11
box   .16
floor   15
   42 euros
 

Michigan Hive: (40mm walls)





Top = 1/8 sheet of polystyrene foam = $2.5
Bottom = 1/8 sheet of polystyrene foam = $2.5
Box = 1/3 sheet polystyrene + 1/3 hardboard = $12

Total = $17 = 12 euros!

When is Finland going to catch up with Michigan?

Offline Finski

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2013, 02:31:13 AM »

When is Finland going to catch up with Michigan?


Michigan Jesus, who follows?

Those self made hives will be ruined in couple of years. I have done those from insulating board.
Waste of time.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 02:50:42 AM by Finski »
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Offline BlueBee

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2013, 03:06:09 AM »
Couple of years huh. :laugh:  Have you read any studies about how long it takes polystyrene to decompose?

Touchdown Jesus in Ohio (made from Polystyrene) lasted many years before being struck by lightening.
 


Offline BlueBee

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2013, 03:22:27 AM »
I am still wondering about wintering  LOL!!!    My basic prep is to wrap as the op mentioned with felt paper   Not a good idea?   Has worked moderately well in the past....
I do winter some wood hives and some do survive, but when I started to do nucs I realized it was really time to ditch the wood and go to foam.  I wintered about a dozen 4 frame medium nucs last winter in foam.  That size of colony won’t survive in wood boxes in Michigan.

Offline Finski

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Re: Winterizing
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2013, 04:18:18 AM »

Couple of years huh. :laugh:  Have you read any studies about how long it takes polystyrene to decompose?



Yes, it burns in 10 minutes. I burn them outdoors if needed. one box is 1 kg plastic.

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