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Author Topic: Lactic acid bacteria probiotic  (Read 3855 times)
RHBee
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« on: October 10, 2013, 11:33:06 AM »

I've read reports about the use of lactic acid bacteria to boost the immune system of honeybees. I was simply wondering if anyone can see a down side to using this method to control or pervent nosema, EFB and AFB?
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Ray
Michael Bush
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2013, 07:06:46 PM »

The strain that lives naturally in a bee gut produces a biofilm that protects them.  What you need to do, is not to kill it... I'm not sure what a source for it would be except untreated bees...
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Michael Bush
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RHBee
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 05:09:19 AM »

The strain that lives naturally in a bee gut produces a biofilm that protects them.  What you need to do, is not to kill it... I'm not sure what a source for it would be except untreated bees...
I found a source that is in a powder form. I realize that it occurs naturally in untreated bees but with all the different stuff that we throw at our bees to keep them healthy I was just thinking of boosting their immune system.
I have seen human cases where the super antibiotics used to treat resistant bacteria have completely wiped out the beneficial bacteria. The course of treatment requires that the bacteria be restored. I was simply applying the same logic to my bees. I have no idea what the levels of probiotic bacteria exist in my bees now. I was just wanting to give them a boost before they go into winter mode.
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Ray
Bee Curious
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2013, 12:53:30 AM »

There are many, many strains of lactobacillus.  You would need to give bees the  strain that is specific to their digestive system.  It is not the same as what is sold for humans or our (mammal) pets.
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RHBee
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2013, 04:50:51 AM »

There are many, many strains of lactobacillus.  You would need to give bees the  strain that is specific to their digestive system.  It is not the same as what is sold for humans or our (mammal) pets.

Thank you,  this I did not know. I will reread the report, if I can find it, and provide a link. Hopefully opening up room for further discussion.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 08:29:31 PM »

How do you know you're not hurting their immunity by giving them the wrong strain which will compete with the right strain?
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Michael Bush
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RHBee
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2013, 12:30:41 AM »

How do you know you're not hurting their immunity by giving them the wrong strain which will compete with the right strain?

Michael that's just it, I didn't know that there were other strains. I'm an experienced industrial electrician, novice beekeeper and an ignorant microbiologist. grin
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RHBee
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2013, 07:57:33 AM »

I'll throw a couple of links out for everyone. I guess I should have read further I was simply excited about the idea of naturally boosting my bees immune system. I'm not one that just treats with antibotics. I may just treat for mites w/o checking but the acids I use already exsist in the colony. Just not in these levels. I have accepted the fact that while I am killing bad things I am also killing good things. I simply want to help my colonies out and possibly undo any harm I've caused.

http://www.alfredstate.edu/files/downloads/microbesinbees-Sammataro.pdf

http://mag.digitalpc.co.uk/fvx/sgm/mbt/1111/

I will contact the LA Bee Lab and ask a couple of questions. Maybe they can give me a clue. Still good readings.
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Finski
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 01:47:17 AM »

.
Don't waste you time with this issue.

People write what ever humbug, which reveals all problems. So you need only drink sour milk and everything is all right. WAU!!!

Pollen in combs are stored by the help of lactic acid.
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merince
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2013, 02:30:06 PM »

Actually, there is research by Magdalena Kazimierczak - Baryczko and Bozena Szymas, called IMPROVEMENT OF THE COMPOSITION OF POLLEN SUBSTITUTE FOR HONEY BEE (Apis mellifera L.), THROUGH IMPLEMENTATION OF PROBIOTIC
PREPARATIONS. It was published in Vol. 50 No. 1 2006 of the Journal of Apicultural Science. Here is the link:  Journal of Apicultural Science

They used commercially available probiotics into subs and found out that they are helpful in creating "fat bees" or the so-called winter bees. They used TRILAC and BIOGEN-N. The recipe they used is in the link above.
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danno
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2013, 05:00:01 PM »

 lactobacillus is the yeast/bacteria that ferments cabbage into sauerkraut  and is wonderfull  in a sour beer
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RHBee
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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2013, 07:08:04 PM »

Thanks
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RHBee
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2013, 07:08:16 PM »

Thanks I'll check it out.
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danno
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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2013, 08:09:07 AM »

We also have a very old sour dough starter that is  lactobacillus
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9945121
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« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2013, 10:51:42 PM »

here is my opinion/hypothesis , NOT just based on honeybee info or data but more on my own understanding.
in the gut of the bees , there is a "primary/basal" brain as in mammals ( ex humans , therefore we have a gut feeling ).
when the gut homeostasis ( read balanced and stable and weel functioning ) is destroyed or below par , the immune system is compromised.Just as for us , then the bees work less hard/less efficiently.Because then more energy than normal is directed towards HEALING the gut.The bees then HAVE to rest in order to get better or at least WORK below par (in an engine we would say lower the RPM).
What could upset their gut?
anything that is not natural for the bees: sugar, one unique source of pollen,quick change of pollen source,virus to which they are not used because they "travelled" long distances.
Getting queens from far away is not right either.
For us humans , when we have an upset stomach , we have to slow down in order to get better.
For some other reason , the bees do not have that luxury , given the conditions we give them for most of us beekeepers.
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DavisSmith
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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2013, 01:19:14 AM »

For the beekeeping one should be clear with the concepts that they require proper and accurate care, so that they should not feel uncomfortable with.
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