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Author Topic: extremely late season superseding?  (Read 684 times)
10framer
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« on: October 04, 2013, 11:19:12 AM »

my bees have been foraging as hard as they do in any spring flow so i decided to go through them yesterday evening.  they're bringing in goldenrod all of the sudden even though it's been blooming for 4 or 5 weeks now.
anyway, all hives are looking good and actually putting up stores with the exception of one.  the first frame i pull there is a clump of queen cells and one has been cut down.  i decided to go all the way through this hive because it's one i've been a little concerned about.  there is capped brood and big larvae in several frames along with more queen cells, some cut down and some still look viable.  no eggs no young larvae.  there are drone cells and several drones (the first i've seen in a few weeks and this is the only hive letting them hang around.  these bees have always been a bit irritable but i probably took 15 stings in my hands and forearms going through them.  the cells really looked like swarm cells but this hive is only just getting up to strength.  i split them twice this year and the last time was in late july or early august. 
anyway, i'm going to leave them alone for a couple of weeks then see if they managed to requeen themselves.  this is all leading up to the question of will they be able to stay strong enough to survive in the single ten frame deep?  beetles and robbing concern me more than survivng the cold.  the high today is going to be close to 90 (go figure, i planted all my winter fields last sunday and they are coming up already). 
so, i guess this is sort of a poll.  would you combine them now or let them try to make it?  they cover 8 frames and have maybe three frames worth of brood left to emerge.  assuming the queen gets mated this is a very short break in the brood cycle and there seem to be enough young bees emerging to balance some of the attrition. 
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capt44
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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2013, 11:41:41 AM »

I'm in Central Arkansas.
I would merge the hives into one hive.
I would rather have a strong population going into winter and have one live hive in the spring that I could split than 2 dead ones.
To me it's awfully late in the season to try and get a queen to emerge and mated and settled in before it gets too cool.
A note: The small hive beetles are worse this year than I've ever seen them.
It'll take a strong population of bees to keep them under control.
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Richard Vardaman (capt44)
10framer
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« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2013, 02:25:02 PM »

Yeah, i can't imagine why they booted the old queen.  It's one i raised back in may and she was a decent layer.  It looks like one emerged recently and i've got drones so i'm going to give it 10 days but i expect to be doing a combination unless i'm pleasantly surprised.  Beetles don't seem as they did last year here but i think my hives are stronger too.
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MsCarol
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« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2013, 03:43:22 PM »

We still have a few weeks of decent weather. If new queen flies and gets mated, will she have enough hive members ....and food to get her to next spring? Maybe time to play Robin hood and help that bunch along if that is what you want.

Getting a strong feeling we are in for a wet/snowy winter here in the southeast. Snow i can handle but I suspect some of it is going to be ICE.

This will be first winter with bees for me. Going to try to balance the hives with stores, do a beetle bash and put a fence up to keep the cows from knocking over hives as they winter here at the house. Gotta love cattle panels.
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Wolfer
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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2013, 07:10:01 PM »

I'm quite a bit North of you and I had a queen that was an egg at the first of sept. A week ago she had four frames of eggs and young larva. I think you have time. Woody
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dprater
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2013, 08:12:07 PM »

My bees have been foraging as hard as they do in any spring flow also, laying like crazy and they threw off a softball size swarm today. I dont know what to do with them. I've got them in a nuc but I'm not sure its worth fooling with this late. My concern is if she left Q cell or not in the hive she left? It was about dark and I did not see a Q in the swarm, I'll look tomorrow. If she did not leave Q cells I may try to put her back??

dan
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10framer
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2013, 09:57:22 PM »

carol i'm thinking it's going to be a cold winter too.  haven't had substantial ice down here since around 1994 that i can remember so we're way past due.  i'm not about to set back another hive by pulling brood this time of year and i've got a few that could spare a couple of frames.
dan, a softball size cluster is pretty small.  that sounds like something i'd try just to see if i could do it.
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RHBee
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« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2013, 06:26:34 AM »

I've got more than a couple hive still raising drones. The temps have been running in the low to mid 80's to the upper 60's. Goldenrod is blooming all over. What could it hurt to see how it turns out. You could always combine later. I would let them sort it out.
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Later,
Ray
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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2013, 09:51:38 AM »

Dan,

As a 4 month Bee Keeping Veteran, I would put a queen excluder where ever you put her (if my hive survives long enough to swarm). That way she'll be trapped. Be sure there's no q cells in the parent hive or it's dueling banjos all over again.
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"Life is hard, It's even harder when you're stupid."

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dprater
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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2013, 09:53:56 AM »

Please forgive me 10fraimer for asking questions on your post. The hive that I though the swarm came from had eggs in it, no Q cells, did not see the Q but did not look much. The swarm had a slim Q. Leads me to beleave the swarm just showed up, what do you think?

dan
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10framer
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« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2013, 10:11:02 AM »

dan, it's no problem.  i decided what i was going to do before i started the thread i was just curious about what others would do.  your situation is kind of similar.

ray, until this happened i haven't seen a drone in almost a month.  there are some ferals close to me and about 15 hives down the road so i guess there more tolerant bees than mine around.  this is a queen i was going to replace in the spring anyway because they are too tolerant of hive beetles but too aggressive toward me.  i'm pulling for the queen to get mated to what ever is out there.  if it doesn't work out they'll get stacked on another hive.  highs have been pushing 90 the last three days.
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RHBee
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« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2013, 12:19:28 PM »

Please forgive me 10fraimer for asking questions on your post. The hive that I though the swarm came from had eggs in it, no Q cells, did not see the Q but did not look much. The swarm had a slim Q. Leads me to beleave the swarm just showed up, what do you think?

dan

For what it's worth,  it sounds to me like you have a late swarm that was attracted to your yard. I had one show up in my backyard about a month and a half ago. They were flying around one of my hives so I thought that it was from that hive. The swarm took up residents in a oak tree hollow. I checked what I thought was the parent colony and found no evidence of swarming. Sounds like you got a new colony at some other beekeepers expense.

Ray
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Later,
Ray
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