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Author Topic: Doing a cut-out tomorrow got a question.  (Read 1755 times)
RHBee
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« on: September 27, 2013, 11:29:48 PM »

Tomorrow I'm going to remove a small colony off of a tree limb. What I would like to know is:
How do you keep from leaving bees behind? I have to cut the comb and greatly disturb the colony. I would like to gather as many as I can.
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Ray
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 12:09:21 AM »

Are you planning to put the brood into empty frames, and into a box?  Just wondering your full approach.  The key of course is going to be finding the queen, caging her, and getting her in the box.  Are you using a bee vac?
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2013, 12:47:37 AM »

I was hoping for a bit more info, but I will do my best with what you gave.  The true key is to find the queen, cage her, and put her in the box (which will typically happen on the last piece of comb...she will keep running from you).  Add the brood and as many bees as you can, then put the hive on top of a ladder or something to get the hive as close to the original spot as possible.  They will/should orient to the new location, then go back well after dark to seal the hive and relocate.  Try to keep as many bees on the brood as you can so it doesn't die.  I hope you took some time to look at some You Tube videos on bee cut outs....JP The Beeman is the BEST!  Even just watching a couple, you will learn a TON! 
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Sour Kraut
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2013, 07:26:08 AM »

This late in the season, I would ask if it is possible to cut the limb on both sides of the colony, and lower it .....gently...........and modify an old hive body (or build a large enough box) so as to be able to place the entire colony in the empty box

Seal up around the limb, cover it well, reduce the entrance, and let them be till spring-time; then transfer combs to frames, or possibly set a 'real' hive on top and let them migrate upwards.

I realize this may not be possible, but thought I'd throw the idea out there.
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iddee
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2013, 08:16:59 AM »

To answer the original question, you do the removal, then leave the hive there until dark. They will all go inside at dark.
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RHBee
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2013, 08:24:10 AM »

Are you planning to put the brood into empty frames, and into a box? 

Yes

Are you using a bee vac?

No

This late in the season, I would ask if it is possible to cut the limb on both sides of the colony, and lower it .....gently...........and modify an old hive body (or build a large enough box) so as to be able to place the entire colony in the empty box

Seal up around the limb, cover it well, reduce the entrance, and let them be till spring-time; then transfer combs to frames, or possibly set a 'real' hive on top and let them migrate upwards.

I realize this may not be possible, but thought I'd throw the idea out there.

My wife suggested that we cut the limb but the home owner really doesn't want that. That would be a great option.

They will/should orient to the new location, then go back well after dark to seal the hive and relocate. 

BIM, That statement is what I needed. Timing. The rest I already knew. The last colony I removed like this was done in February of last year. It was so cold that no bees were flying. Today the temps are going to be in the upper 70's. I'll build a special box just for this job with a queen includer over the reduced entrance. I'll also carry a frame of open brood along to help them stick.
Thanks to both of you. I think I got it from here. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Ray
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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2013, 08:36:32 AM »

If you rubber band the comb into the frames you should be okay even this late as it probably is not too cold down your way yet. You will need to feed fairly heavily so they can produce wax to anchor these combs into the frames and build stores for winter.
On the note of feeding, I would not place them near stronger hives in your yard unless you are feeding them also as it would ultimately set up a robbing situation.Keep the entrance reduced to a msall opening.
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rwlaw
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 08:53:15 AM »

Your pic has no depth ( how high & how big the limb is) so assuming that the limb is trimmed and can be handled, building a box that would cradle the hive would the best idea. That would eliminate the need to find the queen, would the hive survive the transfer etc.
I
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10framer
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2013, 11:14:06 AM »

To answer the original question, you do the removal, then leave the hive there until dark. They will all go inside at dark.

i agree.  how far off the ground are you ray?  the smartest thing i ever did back when i did a lot of cutouts was to get some masonry scaffolds and stop working off of ladders.  you can get up there and do the job sitting down with the hive right next to you.  way safer and it allows you to sit there and scoop up all the bees that go back to the old hive location and dump them at the entrance of the new hive until they get it into their brains that they moved.  it slows you down setting up and breaking down but once you have everything in place you more than make the time up and it's much safer than working from ladders. 
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RHBee
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2013, 12:15:59 PM »

To answer the original question, you do the removal, then leave the hive there until dark. They will all go inside at dark.

I didn't see your response this morning iddee. That's the information I needed. I put together a box that I can hang in the original location.
If you rubber band the comb into the frames you should be okay even this late as it probably is not too cold down your way yet. You will need to feed fairly heavily so they can produce wax to anchor these combs into the frames and build stores for winter.
On the note of feeding, I would not place them near stronger hives in your yard unless you are feeding them also as it would ultimately set up a robbing situation.Keep the entrance reduced to a msall opening.

I plan to feed 2:1. I already have reduced the entrances on my other colonies. I'll be feeding with an inverted bucket. As far as time of year, I cut out a smaller colony last February and was able to build them up pretty good this spring.

Your pic has no depth ( how high & how big the limb is) so assuming that the limb is trimmed and can be handled, building a box that would cradle the hive would the best idea. That would eliminate the need to find the queen, would the hive survive the transfer etc.



Sorry about the depth thing that's the best my phone can do. They are only about 10 or 12 feet up.

To answer the original question, you do the removal, then leave the hive there until dark. They will all go inside at dark.

i agree.  how far off the ground are you ray?  the smartest thing i ever did back when i did a lot of cutouts was to get some masonry scaffolds and stop working off of ladders.  you can get up there and do the job sitting down with the hive right next to you.  way safer and it allows you to sit there and scoop up all the bees that go back to the old hive location and dump them at the entrance of the new hive until they get it into their brains that they moved.  it slows you down setting up and breaking down but once you have everything in place you more than make the time up and it's much safer than working from ladders. 

Rob, I agree scaffolds would be safer but not an option this time. I'll be 10 or 12 feet up, not to high. I'm going to prop the extension ladder in the "Y" of the tree and tie it off. I'll be making a few trips up and down. Then hang the box up on the limb. I'm ready to head over there. I'll post some pics when I get it hanging.
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Ray
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2013, 12:47:33 PM »

good luck
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RHBee
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2013, 07:52:36 AM »

Well everything went great as far as I can tell. I never did find the queen though. There is open brood so I know that there is a queen present. I was a little bit off on my height estimates. It was more like 18ft or so.
Jim you were right about the working on a ladder thing. I initially tried cutting the comb to fit the frames while on the ladder but gave up on that. It just didn't feel safe. I use all medium frames and paid attention to which way was up when orienting the comb. The bees started coming to the box while I was working it on the ground. My wife and I had a good time and provided the neighborhood with some quality entertainment.


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Ray
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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2013, 08:40:13 AM »

I had one gal that was desperate to get a 2/3nd story cut out going and couldn't understand the why's of cuttiing a section of brick chimney & removing the hive off a single extension ladder couldn't be done. After politely as poosible explaining that you have a balance/gravity thing going on and when you throw in hive of angry bees it's cotton picken dangerous, I suggested she call the bricklayer/bee remover dude back as I was too backed up. I really wanted to ask her if she had even painted of an extension ladder before but I bit my lip LOL
Hope your day's endeavors paid off and they make it thru the winter!
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10framer
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2013, 08:46:07 AM »

glad you made it out alive.  i used to go to the same apartment complex every year to do removals 2 stories up.  that's when i started using scaffolds.  if you're going to do a lot of cut outs it's a good investment.
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RHBee
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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2013, 10:26:08 AM »

After politely as poosible explaining that you have a balance/gravity thing going on and when you throw in hive of angry bees it's cotton picken dangerous,
Hope your day's endeavors paid off and they make it thru the winter!

These bees were super gentile. I did brace for a less than friendly reception though. I'll do my best to see that they make it to spring. First order is feeding.

glad you made it out alive.

Thanks Rob. I work from ladders at my job all the time. I did have enough sense to tie the ladder off. Working extended out like that the tie off paid dividends.
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Ray
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2013, 08:38:06 PM »

I've seen this a couple of times on the internet. It just baffles the heck out of me. It seems like they are going against nature to haphazardly build comb on the bottom of a limb. There's no protection from the elements or anything. I almost want to say, "Don't they know anything about beekeeping?"
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MsCarol
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« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2013, 08:49:44 PM »

It seems like they are going against nature to haphazardly build comb on the bottom of a limb. There's no protection from the elements or anything. ....

I need to ask......just HOW common are "open air" colonies?? I would think it WOULD be out of the norm to build without any weather protection.

And a question for the experts......How many BEE species are ground dwellers? And how many look like a honeybee?? I was told by a neighbor of his having to "get outta Dodge" over a ground dwelling "BEE nest" while bush hogging. When i said "Yellow jackets" he said he was sure they were "bees" and not yellow jacket hornets.  I will take that with large salt block, but triggered me to ask after this open air hive.
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RHBee
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« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2013, 09:13:50 PM »

I think these are this years swarms. The only two cut outs I've ever done were colonies like this.
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Ray
RHBee
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« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2013, 07:57:38 PM »

Just a quick update--Opened the box and found the queen on some of the brood comb I had given them. The comb I cutout has some capped brood. They are still super gentile. Looks like they're happy and prospering.
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Ray
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« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2013, 11:27:36 PM »

It seems like they are going against nature to haphazardly build comb on the bottom of a limb. There's no protection from the elements or anything. ....

I need to ask......just HOW common are "open air" colonies?? I would think it WOULD be out of the norm to build without any weather protection.

And a question for the experts......How many BEE species are ground dwellers? And how many look like a honeybee?? I was told by a neighbor of his having to "get outta Dodge" over a ground dwelling "BEE nest" while bush hogging. When i said "Yellow jackets" he said he was sure they were "bees" and not yellow jacket hornets.  I will take that with large salt block, but triggered me to ask after this open air hive.


first one i ever saw was in the late 90's and it was big.  i kind of thought it was a throwback to some ahb crossing somewhere down the line.
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