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Author Topic: wow. i need help! a vegan wants to tour my bee yard! she asked me a few questi  (Read 3618 times)
adamant
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« on: September 21, 2013, 12:27:42 AM »

she asked me a few questions and I don't know how to answer her!

she said:  Bees are enslaved!
“I heard vegans don’t eat honey. I didn’t realize that. Can you tell me why not?”

  They’re exploited for human gain.  They are robbed of their honey.  The queen bee is eventually killed to control the hive.  Some bees get killed when the trays are taken out to get the honey and then put back in.  Honey is regurgitated plant pollen, so it came out of a bee; therefore, it’s an animal product.

 

Then someone would say something like, “But the bees aren’t enslaved.  They fly freely out to the flowers and then return to the hive.”

HELP! she is coming Saturday!
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OldMech
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2013, 12:42:35 AM »



   Diseases and pests have taken their toll on Feral hives. I want to help, so I have hives. I do my best to keep them disease and pest free. Provide them with a good home and control the predators that would harm them. In return, they occasionally give me honey..
   If that doesnt work just show them the way back out the way they came in.

   I understand some people like to live differently than I do. I am fine with that. Live without a firearm of any type. Eat vegetables and never eat meat. Donate half of your paycheck to the church.   If that is what you prefer... GREAT! This is America, your SUPPOSED to be free to live how you wish. It falls under the pursuit of happiness statement..   I will get along with you just splendidly, be your friend, and assist you however I can.. Until you decide how "I" live is wrong. At that point, I point out the front gate, and push the button that opens it... and wave.....
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39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.
BlueBee
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2013, 12:52:25 AM »

Wow, she sounds like a great gal. applause
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trapperbob
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2013, 01:14:00 AM »

I'm afraid you will lose your argument with her if you try and justify anything . They usually don't except any answer that's not there's that said be polite give answers to questions a best as possible. But before the tour starts let her know that you respect her right to be vegan and you expect the same respect in return. This person may very well just be curious but be mindful not to be trapped in a one way conversation but be willing to here what the person has to say. Everyone is allowed an opinion and sometimes we can learn from them to
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T Beek
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2013, 05:38:49 AM »

Bees are enslaved response; No less (or more) than humans.

Vegans don't eat honey response; That greatly depends on the vegan or "Bees are the ultimate vegan" so why not join them?

Bees are exploited for human gain response;  Isn't everything?

Not all beeks kill their queens and if careful many will kill very few bees when moving things around.   Does the vegan friend drive a car?  How many insects including bees are killed by cars?

My bees are more like pets that receive love, respect and TLC that return the favor with much entertainment and sometimes great quantities of honey.  Should we also give up dogs, cats and hamsters?  Well....hamsters......... Undecided

"Each to their own unless their own attacks your own"  

Absolute certainty from the purists of the world you say?  No way!   grin
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 06:01:25 AM by T Beek » Logged

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
Oblio13
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2013, 07:39:38 AM »

Gently change the subject and steer the discussion toward things she'll appreciate and empathize with. Tell her you call your worker bees "womyn" in repudiation of the oppressive patriarchal traditions that define females by reference to a male norm. Show her how they're kicking out the drones this time of year, and explain how they'll spend the winter in all-womyn cluster having nonjudgmental emotionally supportive meetings where they validate their feelings and discuss Very Serious Things, like why they deserve equality and free medical stuff and lifetime alimony and permanent restraining orders.
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rwlaw
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2013, 07:40:08 AM »

I once got into a go round with a vegan when I made a comment that man is evolving but not this one cause I still got my canines. grin
There is nothing more noble than a misguided person, remember the cry for a boycott on the chicken industry because they had developed a headless chicken that they sat in a box & stuck a feeding tube in their neck?
 Your not going to change their mind, but they want to change yours. Therefore you have the advantage to have a liittle fun. You don't have one article of leather in your wardrobe do you, do you really want to know what goes into the makeup your wearing, when's the last time you got a vacccination, isn't the gas your putting into car talking advantage of things that lived before, wouldn't a head of lettuce run away from you if it could?
Ignore the sarcasm & be informative, after all isn't the biggest threat to bees is the things that feed on them?
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rober
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2013, 09:18:28 AM »

why does she want to tour your yard? if she is against beekeeping might she have a hidden agenda? i'd be leery of showing her where your hives are located. you can answer all of her questions without going to your apiary
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tefer2
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2013, 09:25:08 AM »

why does she want to tour your yard? if she is against beekeeping might she have a hidden agenda? i'd be leery of showing her where your hives are located. you can answer all of her questions without going to your apiary
I agree! fishhit
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rwlaw
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2013, 10:15:22 AM »

I was going to ask if you invited her or she sought you out. If it's somebody that you don't know, ya you might be the next article in Go Vegan or Die website LOL
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Can't ever say that bk'n ain't a learning experience!
Vance G
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2013, 10:18:39 AM »

I would politely decline the opportunity to be maligned.  Nothing to be gained here unless you like conflict and being abused.  Opening a hive for her will just result in incidentally crunched bees and she wouldn't want that on her conscience I am sure.
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Moots
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2013, 10:26:20 AM »

There's no upside here...And the possibility of the downside being anywhere in between mildly uncomfortable and down right unpleasant, or worse.

Politely tell her that you've reconsidered and in light of the circumstances you're not comfortable with her in your bee yard.  Smiley
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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mdax
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2013, 10:49:17 AM »

My daughter is vegan and has no problems with honey or my bees.  She knows that I do my best to keep them happy and healthy. 

One fact that vegans may relate to is that bees are pretty much the ultimate vegan animals, they don't have to kill or hurt anything to complete their lifecycle...not even flowers.  Obviously I leave out the part about the drones in winter.

Whether they are slaves or have free will is kind of a deeper conversation.  As a Eusocial animal I don't think that anthropomorphic analogies apply.  Do our fingers and toes have free will apart from the entire human? 
If anything they are in service to their group, which is the entity, certainly not in service to me.  They are free to swarm, abscond or stay.  In fact as a beekeeper I pretty much consider myself in service to the hive.
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10framer
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2013, 11:20:39 AM »



   Diseases and pests have taken their toll on Feral hives. I want to help, so I have hives. I do my best to keep them disease and pest free. Provide them with a good home and control the predators that would harm them. In return, they occasionally give me honey..
   If that doesnt work just show them the way back out the way they came in.

   I understand some people like to live differently than I do. I am fine with that. Live without a firearm of any type. Eat vegetables and never eat meat. Donate half of your paycheck to the church.   If that is what you prefer... GREAT! This is America, your SUPPOSED to be free to live how you wish. It falls under the pursuit of happiness statement..   I will get along with you just splendidly, be your friend, and assist you however I can.. Until you decide how "I" live is wrong. At that point, I point out the front gate, and push the button that opens it... and wave.....

that's the problem.  it's not enough to be free to live how you want to for a lot of people, they have to strip everyone else of the right to live any other way.  i see it in fundamentalist christian extremists as well as attachment parenting, 6 year old nursing left wingers that chew food and spit it into baby's mouths (both groups should be free to be who they are).  most people have reduced social issues and politics to the level of college football, their team is the best team and there is nothing anyone can say to change their minds. i'm all for live and let live if you aren't hurting anyone in the process.
unless this is a friend of yours i wouldn't let her anywhere near your bees.  she and a dozen other activists might picket you or come kick your hives over one night to free your enslaved bees. 
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10framer
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2013, 11:26:34 AM »

also, you might explain to her that bees often kill and replace queens and that honey is regurgitated nectar not pollen.  it sounds like she knows just enough to be wrong.
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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2013, 11:29:44 AM »

mdax, i have never met one that could think that deeply.

 lau
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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adamant
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2013, 12:26:48 PM »

this is the letter I got from her:
Hi there. I'm moving toward a vegan diet and I just learned vegans don't eat honey because apparently bees are enslaved and used for their honey. I don't think I agree with the vegan view on honey and I want to eating it. Can you just tell me a little about how you keep your bees so I know what to say if I'm asked? I've seen pictures of your bee boxes with the bees flying around freely. It doesn't look like they are captives. And sure you take their honey, but they have enough to eat. I have a feeling that the amount of honey kept bees make is more than the quantity they'd make in the wild anyway, so taking it is simply taking the surplus. Am I right? Your pictures have helped me see bees as beautiful, not scary like I used to think. I don't think bee keeping is bad. Can you confirm my beliefs?
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10framer
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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2013, 12:49:22 PM »

did anybody else ever get that email from the nigerian king where he wanted to deposit millions in your bank account? 
if i got some random email like this i wouldn't even respond.  i guess middle age has made me jaded but i'm with moots, i see no good coming out of this for you.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2013, 12:56:40 PM »

Since when are beeks shy about giving their opinions laugh  I would take her to the apiary and tell her all about the bees….as long as she’s not carrying. grin  You both might learn something new and you might get some new customers too.
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iddee
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« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2013, 01:38:41 PM »

Are the birds in my, and her, bluebird houses enslaved?

What does she do when finding a roach or spider in her home?

Would she rather they die from disease than you treat them and save their lives?

Every time man cuts a hollow tree, a colony is saved by one of your boxes.

Does she have her home protected from termites?

Plants, humans, and animals live and die. Some live because others die. All life cannot be protected at any time, and no life can be kept forever.

EXCEPT THE TRUTH AND ADJUST.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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