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Author Topic: Liberal vs Conservative  (Read 1406 times)
GSF
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« on: September 10, 2013, 03:00:51 PM »

This about explains it;

If you're not a Liberal by the time you're twenty - you don't have a heart!! If you're not a Conservative by the time your thirty - you don't have a brain.
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hjon71
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2013, 06:11:09 PM »

What are you if you have both?
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Oblio13
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2013, 08:00:20 PM »

Libertarian.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2013, 08:31:48 PM »

 grin
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OldMech
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 10:20:57 PM »

LOL
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hjon71
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2013, 02:28:15 AM »

Well then, what if you have neither?
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OldMech
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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 09:49:51 AM »

then you voted for Obama!!!    grin   
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RHBee
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2013, 06:26:50 AM »

then you voted for Obama!!!    grin   

There must be a lot of people out there in that condition. He got reelected. So sad.
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Later,
Ray
hjon71
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2013, 06:45:57 PM »

According to the OP that isn't possible.

Liberals have hearts
Conservatives have brains

Following that logic the statement:
 
then you voted for Obama!!!    grin   

To the question:
Well then, what if you have neither?


Is invalid or at least contradictory.
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iddee
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2013, 06:52:41 PM »

""Well then, what if you have neither?""

Then you are a liberal over 30.
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« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2013, 12:43:23 PM »

I'm allergic to labels. I can't color inside the lines. there is no box that can contain me. (I hope that this becomes a trend)  LOL!   lau
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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2013, 05:37:31 PM »

i don't much like labels by party.  i don't think they mean much.  don't mind being called a conservative...with some libertarian leanings....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2013, 08:42:49 PM »

Have long thought that voting by party was silly....   Always wanted a third party, called the American party where people could go to vote for someone actually interested in helping this country instead of the lesser of two evils..
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kathyp
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« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2013, 09:11:55 PM »

we have other parties.  we have write in votes.  we have options.  problem is, so far, exercising those options has given us people like clinton and obama. 
the milti-party system is basically what most of the European countries have.  because no one can get a majority, nothing ever gets done.  a great deal of time and effort is spent putting together a "coalition government", so that the various parties are not cutting each others throats, but if there is real work to be done, no decision can be made.  all effort is put toward the compromise.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2013, 06:50:28 AM »

I think it's good that governments "getting things done" is slow and difficult. If it wasn't, every new fad or hysteria would be institutionalized.
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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2013, 11:59:14 AM »

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I think it's good that governments "getting things done" is slow and difficult. If it wasn't, every new fad or hysteria would be institutionalized.

you are right, but sometimes thing need to be done.

take the NHS in england for example:  everyone agrees that it has some major problems that need to be addressed.  doesn't matter what side of the issue you are on, everyone knows there are problems.  none of the problems can be fixed because there is never enough of a majority to address them.  the solution is to run commercials to ask people not to go to the doctor for colds and minor stuff. that's the best they can do to address costs and crowding.

i agree that we don't need the government doing much, but sometimes they need to do some things....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
hjon71
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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2013, 07:18:16 PM »

we have other parties.  we have write in votes.  we have options.  problem is, so far, exercising those options has given us people like clinton and obama. 
the milti-party system is basically what most of the European countries have.  because no one can get a majority, nothing ever gets done.  a great deal of time and effort is spent putting together a "coalition government", so that the various parties are not cutting each others throats, but if there is real work to be done, no decision can be made.  all effort is put toward the compromise.

I of course disagree.
Sure we have other parties and the write-in option, but they aren't valid options UNTIL people take the time to understand the level of corruption in place now.
A 3rd party doesn't necessarily paralyze the political process. It could, if the individuals elected were so decided, be the catalyst for the change that is so badly needed. By being the swing vote a 3rd party could defeat policies that are bad and promote the good. Though honestly, half of the policies and laws on the books are junk and need to be eliminated now.
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kathyp
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« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2013, 10:38:26 PM »

Quote
Though honestly, half of the policies and laws on the books are junk and need to be eliminated now.

i can't think of a viable 3rd party candidate run in my lifetime...and i'm not young.  smiley  i'm not opposed to electing outside the two major parties, but good grief, it has to be someone who's not a one trick pony or a nut case. the last couple that pulled enough votes to matter gave us disasters for presidents.

have you noticed that usually it's the republicans that suffer the most from a 3rd party candidate?  what if we quit trying to field a 3rd party and just voted in some real conservatives.  we have some great young conservatives coming up.  they need our support.  stop voting for McCains and Grahams.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
djei5
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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2013, 11:41:08 PM »

Kathyp, I couldn't agree with you more. Cruz and Paul maybe...
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2013, 09:35:04 AM »

I think "None of the Above" should be a choice for every position on the ballot.  If "None of the Above" wins, they need to put someone on the ballot that people actually want...
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Michael Bush
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OldMech
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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2013, 01:03:27 PM »

I think "None of the Above" should be a choice for every position on the ballot.  If "None of the Above" wins, they need to put someone on the ballot that people actually want...


   Not a bad idea if people DID research.. I think most people dont KNOW who/what they want.. They do not take TIME to look, and check on a candidate, they watch the adds, make their choices and vote.. some, flip the dem or repub lever and toss their ballet in the box.
   VOTING doesnt work well anymore. The campaigns are so filled with lies, and.. OR.. falsehoods without actually lying that the TIME an average person has (takes) to do the research after working 6 days in a row is no longer enough to get to the base facts.
   I do not vote STRAIGHT tickets. I try to see which of the people running for election are most interested in this country and fixing its problems..
  As you know, I AM pro gun, BUT!!!!  If I see someone on the ballet that is NOT pro gun and they ARE in line with 90% of my other priorities I may vote for them, no matter the party...    I ALWAYS feel like I am wasting my time, and the urge to vote straight ticket is strong. If I had less time, thats what I would do.
   I have seen politicians tear apart Honest good people with their ways of twisting sentences and words. Ask a politician a question he does not want to answer DIRECTLY and he/she will twist the answer around and completely change the course of the conversation/interview.
   Thats a load of Bull IMHO..  stop talking in circles.. its as bad as the legalese that has to be translated so "WE" can understand the bills proposed?Huh?   More BULL!!!   Write it in ENGLISH, or get out!!!!
   There is no such thing as a language that will eliminate loopholes. Legalese increases the ability to wriggle through holes because NO ONE understands it in the first place!

   Wait.. you'll have to VOTE THE BILL IN TO SEE WHATS IN IT???  thats even worse....

Researching who to vote for is no longer even a good way to judge. How can you judge when they never answer the questions?

   EVERY type of government I have seen, be it socialist or democratic etc... CAN work, and work VERY well, IF, the people IN, and RUNNING that government are not corrupt. When the corruption starts, the end is foreordained.

   All we can do is vote for those we believe uphold our values and way of life... the problem for me is, that my way of life appears to be dying.  NO ONE, that was born, and raised in a big city can come anywhere close to understanding the freedom we enjoy out here in the country. NOR, can they understand the necessity to protect ourselves, Nor understand the way of life.

  Think about it.. a METHANE tax for the gas cows pass?Huh   Really?  Its because they cannot SEE what life here is.

   Many see hunting as cruel.. but they have never seen a pig slaughter house, where thousands of pigs are killed every day.. They cannot see that the Pork THEY eat, were treated SO MUCH more inhumanely than the deer I put in my freezer.  The pigs are run down shoots, they smell the blood, they hear the screams until its their turn.. that deer never knew anything bad was about to happen..  Thats the way I would prefer to go, how about you?
   
   I researched Obama.. he preached change, so I was considering voting for him...
   After 30 minutes of research, I KNEW IN MY HEART that AMERICA would NEVER vote for him...
   The only conclusion I can come to, is that the people that DID vote for him did not do any research, or that they WANTED the government to control their lives... 

   Statistics say, an average democracy lasts about two hundred years..    As I see it, they were right. Ours has lasted a little over two hundred years, and IS showing the classic signs of degradation.

   I do not think there is any way to fix it. Third parties etc...  Too many people think too differently. It is a GREAT thing! But it is also that VERY thing, that will destroy the constitution.  With each year that passes, the "interpretation" of the constitution changes. They find ways to wriggle past what it says, OR, just ignore it... and then they get reelected......



    I have friends from NY to San Fran.. I NEVER go visit them.. EVER!!!!  They come visit me. We go fishing, shoot clay pigeons/targets. We ride our horses.  We start a fire in the yard and all sit around it and enjoy wine or Mead, and they are  STUNNED by the lifestyle..

   In Maine.. Went to my father in laws property by the river. Set up the camper, started a fire. Kids went fishing, adults plinked at cans and targets...  30 minutes later, the police, Game warden, and fire department were there..
   Got tickets for littering (on private property?) No fire permit, Open container (On Private Property?) and was read the riot act by the game warden, and that almost did not end well.. I had an FFL and concealed carry permit and began spouting laws at HIM, and told him exactly, that he was an idiot, and before he started harassing people he BETTER know what he was talking about!!
   In Iowa.. we go to the river, clear a spot, (Who owns this property?) Set up the camper, Start a fire. Kids go fishing, Adults start pinking at cans or targets.    30 minutes later the farmer shows up. Invite him to sit, give him food/drinks, beer wine etc. He takes a turn at shooting the cans, we talk till dark, he says not to leave a mess when were done. We promise we wont.

   A friend from Maine and his wife came to see us.. He made a comment about riding in a combine... I swerved off the road into a field, and waved the farmer down combining his corn. Yeah, I knew him by name.. I introduced my friend, and he was invited into the combine. I spent the rest of the day driving a tractor with grain wagons to the elevator while the "Mainer" rode in the combine, and came away that evening with new friends. The farmer tried to pay me for helping, I refused payment..    THAT is what we are... My friends have found the way I live to be a revelation in enjoyment and friendship, and they have BEGUN to understand why we always argue about politicians/elections. They WANT to retire here.. They can sell their 400K houses, and buy one here for 80K thats NICER, and has more than .2 acres of land with it. They can put all the rest of the money toward retirement and enjoy said retirement... 

 BUT, they still do not UNDERSTAND HOW to vote... It seems a completely alien concept to them to RESEARCH who they are voting for. And that is the crux of the problem. The reason it cant be fixed. When 500K people research, they vote..  Their informed vote comes up against BILLIONS who voted because "Bama gunna make me rich!"


   Sorry.. I always seem to write a book when I get going   Lips Sealed
 
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hjon71
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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2013, 03:10:17 PM »

Not to be critical, but yes, you do grin

But hey, to each his own.
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GSF
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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2013, 03:19:19 PM »

Michael; Good idea

OldMech, I read somewhere once that either a founding father or someone else said that a democracy can not survive corruption.

Reading the two books; "Fairtax" and "Fairtax, answering the critics" really opened my eyes to the serious corruption we call the tax code. If you were to read one read the second one. They said the only reason the tax code is so complicated and numerous is because politicians will write a tax law. The businesses that it effects will donate to something that directly/indirectly benefits the politician. Then the politician will rewrite/modify the law so the damage won't be that harsh on the business. The go between for the two are referred to "K" street lawyers. One would have to read the books to get a more accurate description that this. Good reading! I can't believe I said that! "Reading about taxes is good reading."
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2013, 03:30:38 PM »

>VOTING doesnt work well anymore. The campaigns are so filled with lies, and.. OR.. falsehoods without actually lying that the TIME an average person has (takes) to do the research after working 6 days in a row is no longer enough to get to the base facts.

This is the other thing that should be remedied.  Any candidate who claims he/she is going to do something but that something is outside the scope of their office, should be arrested for fraud and removed from the ballot.  Any person who claims they are going to do something that is in the scope of their office and doesn't do it after being elected should be arrested for fraud and removed from office.  That should straighten out some of the lying...
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OldMech
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« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2013, 07:46:19 AM »

>VOTING doesnt work well anymore. The campaigns are so filled with lies, and.. OR.. falsehoods without actually lying that the TIME an average person has (takes) to do the research after working 6 days in a row is no longer enough to get to the base facts.

This is the other thing that should be remedied.  Any candidate who claims he/she is going to do something but that something is outside the scope of their office, should be arrested for fraud and removed from the ballot.  Any person who claims they are going to do something that is in the scope of their office and doesn't do it after being elected should be arrested for fraud and removed from office.  That should straighten out some of the lying...



   I agree wholeheartedly!!!
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