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Author Topic: Small Cell Foundation Not For Beginners?  (Read 20722 times)

Offline Jerrymac

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Re: Small Cell Foundation Not For Beginners?
« Reply #80 on: February 06, 2006, 01:44:36 PM »
Quote from: derbeemeister

arizona small cellers also state that the bees exhibit the ability to rear worker bees and queen bees using the eggs of laying workers in honey bee colonies (thelytoky) as well as swarms moving in and "requeening" colonies (nest usurpation). Both these are african bee traits. oh, and also, they test positive for african on morphometric tests, especially wing length & cell size. dave de Jong has been saying for years the answer to most beekeeping problems is to mix in african stock. they keep the hives filled with bees, have much less trouble with predators. now it is entirely possible the arizona small cellers have selected non-agressive african bees. no one doubts that possiblility. what SEEMS impossible is that they could be SURROUNDED by african swarms, have swarms moving into their hives, have workers raising queens from their own eggs, that they are naturally smaller -- AND these aren't african bees? could say more, but who wants to get sued


OK Alright already. You can seem to explain away the small cell stuff in arizona by blaming tha Africans. NOW explain away the same thing for the small cell folks in Nebraska, Alaska ,New York, Main, All those places that have small cell bees living with no treatments and are no where near africanized bees.
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Offline Finsky

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Small Cell Foundation Not For Beginners?
« Reply #81 on: February 06, 2006, 01:55:29 PM »
We had in Finland feral bees yet 15 years ago. They were German black origin  (= Northern black) . Even if you byed Italian  or Caucasian queens,  black drones were first to mate with their daughters.  So most hives were crossings and quite mad even if they had F1 queens.

Varroa killed in short time feral bees. German black has now almost vanished from Finland. Now it is really  easy to handle bees here.

Few hive owners were the base of these "national" bees. Hives were so small that it is not possible to keep Italians or Caucasians in those hives. They were usually one brood box and one super. Their hives died and most never knew why they died.

Offline derbeemeister

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Re: Small Cell Foundation Not For Beginners?
« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2006, 04:58:41 PM »
small cell folks in Nebraska, Alaska ,New York, Main, All those places that have small cell bees living with no treatments and are no where near africanized bees.

I have seen no proof of anything. none. just hearsay. show me one believable side by side study that shows that bees do worse on normal comb than hives on some other size comb. show me

herve
Herve Abeille

Offline Jerrymac

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Re: Small Cell Foundation Not For Beginners?
« Reply #83 on: February 06, 2006, 05:48:29 PM »
Quote from: derbeemeister


I have seen no proof of anything. none. just hearsay. show me one believable side by side study that shows that bees do worse on normal comb than hives on some other size comb. show me

herve


AHHH. Now the question, what would you call a "believable side by side study"?

I guess you don't believe any of this stuff M. Bush claims to have done? OR are you suggesting that bees can manage just as well on large "regular" sized combs as small cell. If so why all the hype about treatments?
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Offline derbeemeister

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Small Cell Foundation Not For Beginners?
« Reply #84 on: February 06, 2006, 08:34:50 PM »
A believable side by side study would involve a number of hives, twenty or thirty, where half were treated in some way and the others were not. Simple. Then, the hives could be sampled for mites at the end of the season, or you could simply count how many died. If the treament hives had a better survival rate, then you might be on to something. Did Bush do this?

Trouble is, most people just do whatever it is to all the hives and then they can't know whether it is having the effect they want or the results are due to something else they did, or don't even know about. Like, non-virulent mites. Or maybe the mites have a predator that's taking them down. WIthout adequate controls, your work means nothing, not a darn thing.

Herve
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Offline LEAD PIPE

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Small Cell Foundation Not For Beginners?
« Reply #85 on: February 10, 2006, 04:36:18 AM »
Not just Dadant selling small cell now

http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=288


http://www.beeequipment.com/products.asp?pcode=275CR

I don't understand

I don't see the harm in giving it a try. What problem could there be by putting a couple of hives on small cell? Or is it more an issue of people selling honey labeled as chemical free and causing problems for others not doing so?

Offline Michael Bush

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Small Cell Foundation Not For Beginners?
« Reply #86 on: February 10, 2006, 07:40:24 AM »
>I have seen no proof of anything. none. just hearsay. show me one believable side by side study that shows that bees do worse on normal comb than hives on some other size comb. show me

And what would it cost you to do your own experiment?  People seem very set on Scientific studies but are totally unwilling to do a VERY SIMPLE experiment on their own.  Where's your curiosity?
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Offline Finsky

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Small Cell Foundation Not For Beginners?
« Reply #87 on: February 10, 2006, 08:26:05 AM »
I got a good explanation how small cell works and why universities and authorities are so silent for issue. That is enough for me.

 

anything