>>bees build natural sized cells
>They have allways.
No. They have not. Baudoux did many years of research on changing the size of bees by changing the size of the foundation. Bees build the pattern you give them for the most part.
>Feral bees die in varroa, in New Zeland in 3 years.
I've never been to New Zeland but I hear the same reports here and yet I find more and more of them and others find more and more of them.
>You have no research for that. Deaseased have born in nature.
If human have selected those bees which are not tolerant against deseases, it is not natural cell question.
I have hives that have not been treated in five years. For anything. That's convincing enough for me. Dee's haven't been treated in 18 years.
>>Try a 19 day brood cycle and you'll see
>You have africanized bees Michael or you have noticed egg stage.
I watched commercial Carniolans in an observation hive on several occasions lay eggs in 4.95mm cells and timed them. It's the same result with the ferals or the Italians. It's also the same report measured by Huber in the late 1700s.
The egg is laid on day one and how many days have elapsed? Zero. So on the 20th day how many days have elapsed? 19.
â€œThe worm of workers passes three days in the egg, five in the vermicular state, and then the bees close up its cell with a wax covering. The worm now begins spinning its cocoon, in which operation thirty-six hours are consumed. In three days, it changes to a nymph, and passes six days in this form. It is only on the twentieth day of its existence, counting from the moment the egg is laid, that it attains the fly state.â€
FRANCIS HUBER 4 September 1791.
Did Huber have AHB?
>So as a newbie I am curious what if any is the advantage to beekeepers using the larger cells than what a wild bee would make?
It was the goal of Baudoux to make a bigger bee who could, theoretically haul larger loads of nectar and have alonger tongue to make use of red clover.
Dimensions of cells According to Baudoux
Cell Width Cell Volume
5.555 mm 301 mm3
From ABC XYZ of Bee Culture 1945 edition pg 126http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/celldata.htm
> Is it to produce more honey?
That was Baudoux's theory.
> And when did the practice of going to larger cells start?
Baudaoux started in the late 1800's and continued his research up into the 20's at least. I'm not sure how long. The original foundation mills in this country were five cells to an inch (4.98 to 5.0mm). AI Root back in the late 1800s went to 5.13mm (4.85 cells to the inch). It continued to go up until now when Finsky says the Siberians have gone to 5.6mm.
> From a neutral stand point at this time what M.B is saying makes sense to me about using what the bees would make if people did not interfere. I would just like to know why they made them larger to begin with?
Because they thought bigger bees were better bees.
Here's some natural comb from unregressed commercial carniolans:http://www.bushfarms.com/images/47mmCombMeasurement.jpg
Here's some from a hive in Pennsylvania:http://www.bushfarms.com/images/44mmComb.jpg
Here's standard foundation:http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Dadant54mmMeasured.JPG
I have measured a lot of natural drawn combs. I have seen worker brood in the range of 4.6mm to 5.1mm with most in the 4.7 to 4.8 ranges. I have not seen any large areas of 5.4mm cells. These were all on Carniolan, Italian and Buckfast bees.