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Author Topic: 107 year old man taken down by SWAT team  (Read 1190 times)
Vance G
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« on: September 08, 2013, 04:51:26 PM »

Old guy apparently threatened family and or caregivers with a pistol.  So the cops came and kept at him til he shot thru the door and then the SWAT needed practice and they were able to manage to whip this desperado.  Amazingly they used tear gas and didn't burn the place down!  Must need small children before combustion takes place.  Why couldn't they just let him cool down before anyone got hurt?   At 107 I doubt he could have held out long without going to sleep or needing the bathroom! 

 In a related matter, I guess the desperado's in Chicken Alaska were lucky to survive the friggen EPA's swat team coming in to check if there were water quality violations!  Yes, I guess the EPA needs a SWAT team.  Why are we tolerating this?
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 05:17:24 PM »

why are we tolerating this?

   Because were complacent and comfortable. The horrifying things always happen to someone else and we can keep on living as we are. We wont rise up and put a stop to it until whatever they do AFFECTS US ALL.. then the mess will start.

   I love my country, but I hate my government.    I vote every year, but out here where I live, it seems we are now a minority...   Out here in rural America, our votes dont count as much as they do in places where hundreds of thousands live...    I doubt if my entire state has as much population as LA or Boston... so we dont get what we want anymore. Our way of life is dying...   when they come to enforce the city regulations on me out here in the country, you will read about me in the paper or see on the news how they had to take down another "bad" one.  You will see the congessmen and other leftists shakign their head because someone resorted to violence and people were hurt...   well... sorry leftists.. when there is no where to turn.. guess what? I'll use viloence, and go down swinging.
   I cant win, i know I cant win, thats a fact, but I'd rather go down swinging than watch YOU turn my life to bleep.
   With luck, someone charismatic will rise up, put out the call to true AMERICANS, and we can respond to that call, and us country folks can show you the truth about what were willing to do to preserve our way of life.. a way of life our grandfathers fought, and died for, that YOU want to take away...
   I can understand, that if you live in a city, and the ONLY thing you have ever seen a gun used for, was a drive by shooting that took your friends life, your childs life, your husbands life.. that you might HATE guns.. but all of the country isnt like that.
   I grew up with guns!!!  I took my .22 to SCHOOL when i was a kid. We had NRA classes and fired our rifles IN the gym at target traps. I put my rifle in my locker, I put my shells on the shelf. After school i went hunting with my friends. WE ATE what we shot, and we enjoyed our lives. WE NEVER considered using our guns to hurt another person. If we had, we would have been welts from our ankles to our necks!!!  Yeah,,, I got my but WHIPPED when I misbehaved. I STOOD beside my desk at times because i could NOT sit due to welts... I still fear and respect my father to this day, and I love him with all my heart for teaching me what was RIGHT and what was WRONG.  I never hated my father for giving me those welts, because I KNEW I DESERVED THEM!!!!  I also never tried to excuse the mistakes I made on an abusive childhood.   

   I am complacent now... but given the opportunity.. I would die for my country. NOT, my government.
 
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iddee
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 06:06:46 PM »

 goodpost
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kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 09:42:34 PM »

my first thought when i read the article was that they should have waited him out  BUT he was shooting a rifle and we don't know what the neighborhood was like.  i guess they could have evacuated the neighborhood, but depending on what he was shooting....

i am always hesitant to judge this stuff based on a news story.  we weren't there.  I used to work on a locked ward that had a senior wing.  some of those folks were so nuts, so nasty, and so strong, we were not allowed to go into the room alone.  it's amazing how strong they can be.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2013, 02:30:33 AM »

News flash beeks….a gun is not a toy.  It can be deadly no matter how old or young is behind the trigger.  You play with fire, you might get burned.  Sorry but the person to blame for this is whoever allowed the old timer to carry a gun at 107.  That is just ridiculous.  The real question is WHY are we tolerating that!
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LindaL
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2013, 07:09:25 AM »

News flash beeks….a gun is not a toy.  It can be deadly no matter how old or young is behind the trigger.  You play with fire, you might get burned.  Sorry but the person to blame for this is whoever allowed the old timer to carry a gun at 107.  That is just ridiculous.  The real question is WHY are we tolerating that!

I agree with you 100% but i think you are forgetting that. 

American (I am assuming this story is from the USA) law says you are allowed to have guns.  I don't think there is an age restriction.  So legally I don't think anyone could stop the old timer from carrying a gun.    It's the laws that need to be changed.
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 08:26:37 AM »

I'll have to agree and disagree with you my friends on this one.

I agree with Old Mech. (I'm 54) We took our guns to ag class to refinish the stocks, we took our knives to school because we may go out to prune some fruit trees. I grew up with guns. It was nothing for a couple of us 10/11 yr olds to be seen congregated with our long barrels. Around this area for the next several months you will be hearing gun shots. Dove season, squirrel season, deer season, practice shoot before hunting season, using up extra ammo afterwards. My weapons are also my entertainment. I love to see how good of a group I can create using iron sites at a distance. My wife and I love shooting our .22s at metal objects across the pasture and hearing them ding when you hit them, and so on.

Our guns is our last line of defense against a tyrannical gov't or those who wish to do us harm. Therefore I disagree with changing the laws or blaming someone else with what was going on with the 107 year old.
No we won't defeat the govt but if we follow the course of action of those in the middle east we can wear it down enough they might leave.
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OldMech
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 10:09:43 AM »

When i got my FFL.. the agent I spoke with flat out told me... that there are so MANY laws in effect, that even they did not know them all. Those laws were conflicting and overlapping, and that if they wanted to find a violation, FIND something i was doing wrong, that they could, no matter how hard I tried not to.

   We dont need more laws.
   We already have so many they cannot be enforced. Misuse of guns, needs to end badly for the misuser. However, HOW, do you determine misuse? Defending yourself from criminals? Defending your family from criminals? Defending your country from government?
   I am one of those people who DOES see both sides, I Understand why those of you who live in the cities may HATE guns...  but that does not give you the right to take mine away. My guns have NEVER tried to jump off the shelf or out of the safe to hurt me, or anyone in the family, so why do you want to take them away from me?
   They have never done anything wrong.
   I have them trained well. I have taught them respect, and consideration. I have taught them safety. They never point at a person, loaded or empty. They never take the safety off until they are ready to be fired. They know enough to never be picked up in anger, but they also know.......,

   One day, they may be needed in fear, and that all they have learned may HAVE to be set aside!

    I believe I am an American, and that i have as much right to enjoy hunting, trap shooting, target practice, AND defending my home as YOU have to own a 55 Chevy with a supercharged big block in it, or a beehive.

    A car that fast is dangerous, too much power, it might hurt someone, it should be outlawed!!...   Beehives are DANGEROUS!!!   Someone allergic may get stung and DIE so we NEED to outlaw beehives!!!! 
   Where do you draw the line?  I know there are those of you out there that think that is just silly and stupid..  at one time i though someone taking my gun was silly and stupid..

      Fact;  I HAVE the ability to make a gun from scratch. you will not now, or ever completely disarm me. There are a LOT of people like me out there.

    I believe, that I have as much right to own a gun, as YOU have to own toilet paper. We do not NEED either.. I have never needed any of my guns, and YOU have never NEEDED to use toilet paper. you have soap and water, you can wash your hands.

   Weather its guns, a fast car, or beehives you enjoy as a hobby, I believe you have the right to those things so long as YOU do not abuse them.  Could they be abused?  Does that mean you should not have the right to own them?

   I will not fight, and die for my right to own a beehive. I will not fight and die for my right to own a fast car. I will not fight, and die, for the ABILITY to buy, and use toilet paper.. I can wash my hands.
    I will fight, and die to defend this country. . This country my grandfathers, uncles, and cousins fought for.  Some even died for!  I served, my son IS in the Army, and has been to Afghanistan.   WE ALL believe/d in this country and our way of life. 

    NEWSFLASH

   "Protecting our rights to own guns IS SERVING OUR COUNTRY!"
   
    We.. do not want to take away YOUR rights and freedoms, so we do not expect you to try to take ours.
   If you do???
     Well.. YOU are the one who dislikes guns and does not own any........
   
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 10:10:47 AM »

Quote
American (I am assuming this story is from the USA) law says you are allowed to have guns.  I don't think there is an age restriction.  So legally I don't think anyone could stop the old timer from carrying a gun.    It's the laws that need to be changed.

if this were an oft occurring incident, you might have a point.  the whole reason it's' news is that it's out of the ordinary.  we do not need to change the laws because some other 107 year old man might get his hands on a gun and go nuts.  if that's the kind of criteria you want to use for law changes, i'd submit that there are many other laws that ought to be addressed far ahead of gun laws.  

what we don't need it to follow the European model of dependance on,  and capitulation to, to the whims of the government.  if that is your choice, fine.  it is not our choice.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Vance G
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2013, 05:36:05 PM »

Too bad that the reading of the Constitution is forbidden now.  it was written simply so the common man of the day could easily understand it.  Then the framers took care to spell it out in the Federalist Papers, again forbidden reading for the leftist intelligencia.   

What happened to the country that didn't need a sledge hammer to address an ant on the glass table?  This old fart wasn't going anywhere--fast at least and would have cooled down or been easily corralled given time.  Too bad all the militarized cops with their high capacity magazines are so free to empty them on the citizenry.  This kind of massive force to solve  piss ant problems is becoming commonplace.  Why does the EPA need a SWAT team to check water quality in Chicken Alaska, population 17?  Why does every darn XYZ guvmint  Fiefdom need one?   
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2013, 05:46:27 PM »

your points are good, but look at this from the perspective of the cops.  they don't know who this guy is or what he's doing.  they don't know what else he has.  if he's in a neighborhood shooting a high powered rifle, those round go though window and walls.  he's already fired the thing so they know he can and will.  he's not rational.

we can sit here and read a news article which may or may not be accurate and complete.  we pass judgement.  if we were there, or if it were our spouse facing him, our opinion might be different. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 05:55:41 PM »

News flash beeks….a gun is not a toy.  It can be deadly no matter how old or young is behind the trigger.  You play with fire, you might get burned.  Sorry but the person to blame for this is whoever allowed the old timer to carry a gun at 107.  That is just ridiculous.  The real question is WHY are we tolerating that!

Seems gun control gets pushed ahead of common sense and appropriate action.
I take offense at a SWAT team being called out when 2 officers in armor could have handled it most likely. The use of excessive force is becoming more common. I can't necessarily blame the cops, guys/gals like to play with their fancy new toys....but how about a little restraint and/or discretion.

Btw, I personally believe a person should be allowed to own and carry any weapon they choose, No registration or licensing required. If a person uses those weapons in a way to harm another they forfeit their rights and should be punished.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2013, 07:28:07 PM »

In America we have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. It cannot be written away by laws in Congress. Our forefathers had the foresite to guarantee this right so the citizens would not become servants of s tyrannical federal government.They wrote the Constitution specifically to limit the powers of the federal government.
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OldMech
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2013, 11:00:06 PM »

In America we have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. It cannot be written away by laws in Congress. Our forefathers had the foresite to guarantee this right so the citizens would not become servants of s tyrannical federal government.They wrote the Constitution specifically to limit the powers of the federal government.

   yep!!!  Except..  it was being interpreted wrong early on, and that NOW, they have the ability to interpret it correctly......   shocked
   its only words on a piece of paper to a politician. nothing that cant be circumvented for enough money.
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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2013, 11:53:54 PM »

In America we have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. It cannot be written away by laws in Congress. Our forefathers had the foresight.....

Yep, they were some real geniuses to let irrational 107 year old invalids have guns.  What about 2 year olds?  Do they have the "right" too?

Sure glad I'm not a cop facing all those crazies out there armed to the teeth with semiautomatics.

Folks are really going off the FAR right deep end when I agree with KathyP. laugh
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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2013, 08:20:38 AM »

I waited until my son was 3 weeks old before I bought him his "first" 12 gauge pump shotgun. lau

seriously, I bought him his first gun when he was 3 weeks old. I know that'll drive some folks insane. You may find this hard to believe but he didn't start shooting until later.  Smiley
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2013, 09:38:05 AM »

>News flash beeks….a gun is not a toy.

I'm really glad you clarified that.  Us gun users and owners can never seem to remember that... Wink

The point was, no one wanted to just wait him out.  They have to do something even if it's wrong.  It seems to be human nature...
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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2013, 12:35:23 PM »

Maybe the cops aren’t as clairvoyant as bee keepers. Wink
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2013, 03:56:46 PM »

>Yep, they were some real geniuses to let irrational 107 year old invalids have guns.

My bet is he had that gun for the last century and he certainly wasn't an irrational 107 year old all that time.  I have every intention of having mine still when I'm 107... and if someone tries to haul me off to a nursing home, I'm liable to use it...
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iddee
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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2013, 04:44:51 PM »

 goodpost


ME, TOO!
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2013, 08:15:50 PM »

latest reports make it sound like he wanted to go out with a bang rather than live with family.  i kind of understand that, but what a burden to put on the cops.  suicide by cop is pretty common.  seems like we have had a rash of them around here.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2013, 09:02:28 PM »

>Yep, they were some real geniuses to let irrational 107 year old invalids have guns.

My bet is he had that gun for the last century and he certainly wasn't an irrational 107 year old all that time.  I have every intention of having mine still when I'm 107... and if someone tries to haul me off to a nursing home, I'm liable to use it...


   LOL Thanks.. made me laugh out loud for real.

   Being a gunsmith, my kids grew up around guns. My son and daughter are twins, and were both shooting well by five years old. They were extensively schooled on safety and responsibility. They are nearing 24 now, and have never had one of OUR guns try to harm them OR their friends, OR their family.

   My son has been to Afganistan, and when he returned, he thanked me, tearfully, for teaching him how to shoot. The knowledge saved his life, and perhaps others in his squad.. he wasnt even supposed to BE on patrol, but volunteered because he was BORED.... god his mother chewed him out for that....  Anhow.....

   They (my kids) were five, at the Sitters/daycare. she had about nine kids she cared for each day. My wife dropped them off on the way to work, I picked them up on my way home.. the sitters husband learned i was a gunsmith, and wanted to show me something.. he brought it down in a box, and carefully unwrapped it.. turns out it was a trapdoor Springfield in pristine condition...   the kids went crazy asking to see, asking to touch, wanting to hold it.. and to be honest, i was mildly horrified at their reaction.   Meanwhile, MY kids came running to see what the commotion was..  The sitter watching all of them carefully saw my son and daughter come in.. My son tuned to my daughter and said.
   "Oh, its a gun." Whereupon they both went back to watch cartoons.
   Whos kid is going to cause a problem when they see/find a gun? Mine, or the ones who were curious about why they were so bad?

   I taught hunter safety, and I taught handgun safety, i still have all the material, but as time progressed, i decided to get out of all of it, the liability with todays idiots was too great, and I did not have the mentality to deal with people who had absolutely NO common sense. In my career, I have been handed over a dozen guns, handguns, shotguns, and rifles to look at, and found them loaded...
   these people transported LOADED guns to my shop?Huh  I often wonder why humanity has not killed itself off yet due to stupidity..
   Dont get me wrong. I have done my share of stupid things, just most of them were not with firearms.

  Having never had a gun try to hurt me, and growing up with them, i often find it hard to relate to people who are so adamantly hateful of an inanimate object. i do believe, that when guns are removed, that there is no more equalizer.

   A little old lady with a S&W .38 is every bit the equal to a 6'6", 230 lb criminal kicking her door in.
   When the criminals KNOW you dont have a gun, they do not fear you. they can overpower you and take whatever they want, including your life if they are so inclined.
 I am almost 50, and I cannot keep up with my 24 year old son. he can bench 400 lbs. I cant. I still wrestle with him, and hold my own with a bit of wisdom and treachery, but am not in denial of the fact that a couple punks with baseball bats are beyond any ability I have to contend with UNLESS, i have a gun.

   it takes the police 20 minutes to get here. It takes an ambulance 15 minutes to get here. There is NO PLACE here that would be safe from a criminal if he wanted to break in. because he would KNOW that even if we called the police, he could do whatever he wanted, steel, kill, and be LONG gone before the police showed up. the only deterrent we have to such a threat, is a gun...
   there is nothing like hearing the action on a shotgun being worked to make a criminal THINK, really really hard about loitering outside my back door. My dobermans do tend to help a little.

   You can take away my guns if you want, but as i said before, rest assured, that I will NOT be unarmed!    I will MAKE a gun... unless your going to outlaw owning a lathe and milling machine too? I bet i could still make something fireable with a welder and a good drill.. if that fails.. a 12 gauge shell, a mouse trap, a piece of pipe, and a string to discourage anyone kicking in my door will work almost as well.
   i do not WANT to be a criminal, but i will not be left at the mercy of being overpowered by someone stronger, just because they want my food, my money, my car... I'd say my wife but shes meaner than me.
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« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2013, 12:13:50 PM »

> suicide by cop is pretty common.  seems like we have had a rash of them around here.

Maybe the cops should stop cooperating...
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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2013, 11:00:07 PM »

Michigan State Patrolman, 43, gunned down on a routine traffic stop in West Michigan yesterday. 

Maybe there’s a good reason why they don’t think it’s wise to wait out every crazy nut firing off rounds. 
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