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Author Topic: Hot Hive  (Read 1286 times)
ggileau
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« on: September 08, 2013, 02:54:06 PM »

I would like some opinions on a hot hive. I decided to kill the queen two weeks ago and split the hive in two. One week ago I put a queen in each half with duct tape over the candy and yesterday I pulled the duct tape off. At this point today they are hotter than ever, a little while ago I went out to put an entrance reducer on them (I forgot to yesterday)  and they came rolling out at me! My son and I have ten hives and at this time of year you can expect a little defensive behavior but not like this. At this point I'm almost ready to cut my losses and kill them off and use the resources (not the brood!) on some of the weaker colonies.

I don't know if it is a coincidence but as I've been sitting here thinking about it, almost all the problems that we have had this year has been three feet from this hive, mostly lost queens. Up until a month ago  they were defensive but not like this. Indecently, I have a second queen less hive that is not at all difficult to work.

Like I said at the beginning, I'm just looking for some input. Thanks all in advance, Gary   
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sc-bee
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 03:36:21 PM »

First question by all is going to be where are you located. Update your profile please  grin
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ggileau
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 03:41:41 PM »

Indeed! That would be pertinent information. Sorry. Griswold Connecticut
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OldMech
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 06:17:41 PM »

It will take a couple weeks for the "next" generation that you are hoping will not be "hot"..
   I hate hot hives, and would do exactly what you did, but you have to give the new genetics time to overcome the old. I think its around 21 days from laying to hatching, so you have at least that long to see a difference.
   
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Joe D
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 09:15:15 PM »

What kind of queens did you replace old one with.  Everyone has their favorite, I like the yellow Cordovan, suppose to be about the most gentle.  I have had hive you didn't want to mess with with a full suit, most of the time I can pull frames out of the Cordovan hive without protection.  Good luck




Joe
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TenshiB
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2013, 11:03:49 PM »

Like OldMech said:  that whole batch of bees is going to be mean because of their mother's "mean" genetics. The new queen's offspring will very likely be more gentle but you are going to have to wait a long time to notice because that old (mean) batch of bees is going to take a while to die off and in their place will be more gentle bees (hopefully). [=

Another thing:  if you've exposed the candy after 7 days, it generally takes around 3 days for the bees to get through that candy to release the queen. This means she will have been in the cage for 10 days. She's gonna be a pretty skinny queen unless they feed the heck out of her through the cage screen. Also this means that you're going to be waiting 3 more days before you've got a matriarch in your hive(s) laying eggs. [=
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 11:51:37 AM »

When I started, I also thought that it would take a whole generation to get rid of the mean bees. I was corrected by some old time members on this board that that when you replace the queen that her pheromones will control the hive. I had a hive that was a little hot. It swarmed and while trying to hive them I used the bucket on a pole trick, something I had done many times before, and when I bumped them into the bucket, they tore me up, especially on my head. The hive that remained behind was as nice as the rest of my bees within a week after they swarmed.
Hope yours calms down just as quickly.
Jim
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ggileau
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 05:21:07 PM »

Thank you all for the advice. I am not easily intimidated but boy, when they come at you they cling to you and find a way to get inside veil and the full suit not to mention the stings through the suit and leather gloves. The are very persistent! I hope  sawdstmakr is correct.
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TenshiB
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 07:58:15 PM »

It swarmed and while trying to hive them I used the bucket on a pole trick, something I had done many times before, and when I bumped them into the bucket, they tore me up, especially on my head.

That part of your story made me LOL!
I haven't come across any like that YET.. I'm sure some day it's gonna happen. I did try and "save" a hornets' nest at work (exterminator) several weeks back and found out that those buttheads can sting through some pretty thick stuff! It had been years since I hollered and ran like that! The whole time two or three were hot on my tail sounding like miniature helicopters...  Lips Sealed
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rob brinkerhoff
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2013, 12:54:01 AM »

That is what I've done with hot hives, split them then give them each a new queen. What I usually notice is that each split is more docile than the parent hive. It will take time for the new queens to start laying and her offspring to start populating the hive.

I would give the splits more time before you make part them out. To speed things up you could try swapping a few of the brood frames with other hives. That is, swap a brood frame or two from your splits with brood frames from large mellow hives.
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Ed
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2013, 05:02:16 AM »

"At this point I'm almost ready to cut my losses and kill them off and use the resources (not the brood!) on some of the weaker colonies."

Since you have several others hives, why not spread out all these bees into your other hives, including the brood, but no drone cells? This would strengthen your other hives and diminish the nasty ones, who won't last more than a month or two anyway. If the nasty ones are outnumbered and under a nicer queen's pheromones then you shouldn't have near the problems and you'll get the benefit of them working for you, which you lose if you kill them off. If there's no drone cells or queen cells then you aren't spreading the gene and all the normal brood should do well for you.
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rob brinkerhoff
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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2013, 08:07:39 AM »


If there's no drone cells or queen cells then you aren't spreading the gene and all the normal brood should do well for you.


Very good point.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2013, 10:56:48 AM »

If you killed the queens and a week later put a queen cell in, the bees would be close to having an emerging queen.  Did you destroy the queen cells?
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Michael Bush
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ggileau
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2013, 05:18:07 PM »

If you killed the queens and a week later put a queen cell in, the bees would be close to having an emerging queen.  Did you destroy the queen cells?


Yes Michale, I did kill many queen cells. I wanted no part in keeping the genetics going! I was quite surprised that there were queen cells a week after I killed the first batch.

Once again, thank you all for the advice. Tomorrow will be one week since I took the duct tape off of the queen cages and I'm quite anxious to see the results. A week ago I was ready to pour gas on them but now I'm dying to see how they're doing! These darned thing have a way of getting to you laugh.
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Ed
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 11:08:04 PM »

A quicker way to kill them, instead of pouring gas, is to cover the hive with a large garbage bag and put some dry ice in there.  Smiley
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2013, 03:28:05 PM »

Sulfur smoke or soap suds are both better than gasoline.  They won't destroy the comb or make it unlivable for the next colony.
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Michael Bush
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trapperbob
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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2013, 06:36:37 AM »

I wouldn't kill them give it time and leave them alone let the new queen do her job soon you will have the results you want and two hives instead of one
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ggileau
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2013, 03:58:55 PM »

When I started, I also thought that it would take a whole generation to get rid of the mean bees. I was corrected by some old time members on this board that that when you replace the queen that her pheromones will control the hive. I had a hive that was a little hot. It swarmed and while trying to hive them I used the bucket on a pole trick, something I had done many times before, and when I bumped them into the bucket, they tore me up, especially on my head. The hive that remained behind was as nice as the rest of my bees within a week after they swarmed.
Hope yours calms down just as quickly.
Jim

Just an update! I think that sawdstmkr is correct! Maybe the queen's pheromones do have an effect on the colony.  After the first week after releasing the queen they were much better! It has now been two weeks and they are still testy but I can deal with testy. I can't wait till I see the brood start to emerge.

BTW, I had no intention of pouring gas on them, it was just an attempt at some sarcastic humor. That indeed would be too cruel even for a nasty hive.

Once again, thank you all for your comments
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2013, 08:40:33 PM »

Thanks for the feedback.
Jim
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