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Author Topic: Nuc to medium to combine  (Read 1005 times)

Offline Orlando

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Nuc to medium to combine
« on: August 29, 2013, 11:29:58 AM »
Hello...recently caught 2 swarms and would like to.combine them.

Swarm A is in an 8 frame medium hive (I use all mediums). Swarm B is in a 4 frame medium nuc.

How do I best get swarm B combined with swarm A via newspaper method....being that the bodies are different widths?

Do I have.to first move swarm B to an 8 frame medium and if so what is the best way to do it?

Basically looking for the step by step game plan.....

Thanks alot!!

Offline Moots

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 12:10:09 PM »
I'd....

Remove top off Swarm A, place a single sheet of newspaper with a few slits made with a razor knife.  Place a medium box on top of that...Open the four frame Nuc and transfer it to that box, placing those 4 frames in the middle of the box with two new frames on each end, making sure to shake all the bees out the Nuc into this box.  Place an inner cover with a top entrance on it or just leave the lid slightly propped open for a day or two until you know they've worked their way through the newspaper.....DONE!  :)

May the best queen win!  :-D
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Offline MsCarol

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 12:15:28 PM »
More stupid questions.....

What happens with/when there are two queens in one hive? I am assuming that both swarms have a queen.

Are there ways to get two small swarms through a winter together in hopes that come spring they can be split again?

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 12:24:14 PM »
They will dispose of one of the queens, most likely.  You can split in the spring, but they will have to raise a new queen.
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Offline Orlando

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Re: Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 01:56:52 PM »
Best time of the day to do this?

Should I consider pinching one of the queens vice deathmatch?

Will swarm B bees know their new address or does this shaking cause them to reorientate?

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 03:06:56 PM »
>Best time of the day to do this?

Daytime.

>Should I consider pinching one of the queens vice deathmatch?

If I have a preference in a combine (one is obviously the better queen) I might.  Otherwise I let them sort things out.

>Will swarm B bees know their new address or does this shaking cause them to reorientate?

shaking is not going to cause them all to reorient.  But they will sort it out.
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Offline Moots

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 03:44:23 PM »
How far apart currently in Hive A from Nuc B?

...And where do you want the new combined hive to end up in relationship to their current location?
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Offline Orlando

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Re: Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2013, 04:42:18 PM »
B is about 20 feet from A.

The new joined hive will be remain at A location

Offline Moots

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Re: Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2013, 05:03:56 PM »
B is about 20 feet from A.

The new joined hive will be remain at A location

Hmm...In that case I would probably move B next to A and place a tree branch or some other obstacle in front of the entrance for a couple of days to prompt them to reorient to that location, then do the combine as described above.
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan

Offline Orlando

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Re: Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2013, 09:42:32 PM »
Well, I combined them. Put some branches at the entrance.

I had the queen from smallest swarm (B) in my fingers and she got away....could not find her again. Oh well...deathmatch it is.

Fingers crossed .... Thanks for the tips.

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2013, 11:55:41 PM »
I know you already combined the swarms but for future reference and others who may yet read this I opine the following:

Another method of combining a nuc width hive to a larger sized hive is to use a combining board.  A combining board is a sheet of plywood, ASB, or other material cut to the width of the larger hive, usually 8 or 10 frames.  A hole is cut in the sheet of material to match the inside dimensions of the nuc hive.  The combining board is placed on the larger width hive and the nuc hive is placed on top of the combining board.  Either newspaper or a queen excluder is placed between the combining board and the larger hive body.  The distance between the top bar of the frames in the larger box and the bottom bar of the nuc box slows the egress between the two hives.  It is best to use a top entrance for the nuc box if using a combining board.
A Combining board is usually found where a beekeeper uses a lot of nucs to develop splits and swarms and combines them with weak or queenless hives on a fairly regular basis.
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Offline Jim 134

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2013, 06:42:02 AM »
Brian D. Bray...........
IMHO A picture is worth 1000 words.
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/beefarm/productinfo/649/



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Offline Moots

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2013, 10:07:43 AM »

Another method of combining a nuc width hive to a larger sized hive is to use a combining board.... 

OK....Am I missing something or what?

I get the concept of a combining board, at least I think I do.  However, I realize there are exceptions and some folks stack Nucs....But more often than not, I'd actually say, much more often than not, I think of a Nuc box as one with a fixed bottom attached.  Which....unless I'm missing something, wouldn't work with a combining board.  :?
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Offline sc-bee

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2013, 12:21:50 PM »

Another method of combining a nuc width hive to a larger sized hive is to use a combining board....  

OK....Am I missing something or what?

I get the concept of a combining board, at least I think I do.  However, I realize there are exceptions and some folks stack Nucs....But more often than not, I'd actually say, much more often than not, I think of a Nuc box as one with a fixed bottom attached.  Which....unless I'm missing something, wouldn't work with a combining board.  :?

Naw a fixed bottom throws it out the window. I think most folks tend to build them with fixed bottoms due to ease of transport, pain of buiding an unattached board, and just not having to keep up with an extra bottom board. Even at that I have several of both kind to stack another five on top if i want. You can usually find examples of both for sale. I imagine it is less labor for the supply house to build them attached and fetch the same price. Imagine that.

If the nuc has no bottom you can also sit it to one side on top of the wide box, cover the open side with a flat board, and place a brick on top to hold the board in place until they combine. Of course course the combining board is much neater looking and places the nuc over the center cluster of the wide box if it is in the middle.
 
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Offline Jim 134

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2013, 08:22:54 PM »

OK....Am I missing something or what?

I get the concept of a combining board, at least I think I do.  However, I realize there are exceptions and some folks stack Nucs....But more often than not, I'd actually say, much more often than not, I think of a Nuc box as one with a fixed bottom attached.  Which....unless I'm missing something, wouldn't work with western a combining board.  :?
I do know some of the one way Nuc box like  (D. Coates Version) nukes are for sale from breeder to beekeeper are fixed bottom attached and yes you can get cardboard ones.

Not all Nuc boxes are created equal.

http://www.beesource.com/files/5framenuc_coates.pdf

I believe all the major bee supply houses sell component built Nuc boxes
Brushy Mountain, Mann Lake, Walter T. Kelly, Humble Abodes, Dadant and Miller Bee supply and maybe Western Bee


http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Nucs/products/54/

I see Betterbee is not component built

http://www.betterbee.com/Products/Nuc-Boxes-and-Components/5-Frame-Wooden-Assembled-Nuc-Box

            BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 08:52:55 PM by Jim 134 »
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

Offline Orlando

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Re: Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2013, 08:48:13 PM »
Update: bees chewed through the paper. I did not see any fighting or mass of dead bees. The bees were building out comb. It also looked like the bees were orientating at the front of the hive...could have been the branches that helped.

Overall it appears like a success which is great. Hoping they now have a better chance of overwintering as one hive.

Thanks.

Offline sc-bee

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2013, 09:35:58 PM »
[quote author=Jim 134 link=topic=42502.msg364247#msg364247 date=1377904974
I believe all the major bee supply houses sell component built Nuc boxes
Brushy Mountain, Mann Lake, Walter T. Kelly, Humble Abodes, Dadant and Miller Bee supply and maybe Western Bee
[/quote]

I started to post basically the same thing and then I went to Kelly:

https://kelleybees.com/Products/Detail/?id=33323332333033353336

Looks as though they have gone to a one piece bottom or either a poor description.
John 3:16

Offline Jim 134

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Re: Nuc to medium to combine
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2013, 11:33:18 AM »
[quote author=Jim 134 link=topic=42502.msg364247#msg364247 date=1377904974
I believe all the major bee supply houses sell component built Nuc boxes
Brushy Mountain, Mann Lake, Walter T. Kelly, Humble Abodes, Dadant and Miller Bee supply and maybe Western Bee

I started to post basically the same thing and then I went to Kelly:

https://kelleybees.com/Products/Detail/?id=33323332333033353336

Looks as though they have gone to a one piece bottom or either a poor description.
[/quote]

It looks like Walter T. Kelly has changed some of their designs but you can also call and ask.



                       BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/