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Author Topic: Swarm Traps and Neighbours  (Read 1617 times)
johnauck
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« on: August 27, 2013, 08:05:05 PM »

I have mounted a swarm trap in a tree in anticipation of swarming season. However, our neighbour doesn't like it, he is worried that it 'might attract bees'.

It is mounted about 6' off the ground on a tree that is about 3' from the boundary fence. The entrance is facing away from the fence.

I understand that a hive must not be within 3 meters of a neighbour's fence. But this box is currently unoccupied and if a swarm does move in, it will be moved within a day.

Is it ok to keep an empty hive or swarm trap within 3 meters?



cheers

john
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Oak
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2013, 08:59:01 PM »

I would not want to test this question in court. As a bee novice, I would just move it because it was making my neighbor uncomfortable.

I have done my best to keep my bee activities out of sight so I don't attract unwanted attention.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2013, 09:27:08 PM »

I am not familiar with your rules but I would find a tree with a higher branch, preferably 15'. Place a hook, pulley and rope. This way you can pull the swarm trap up and lower it down when the bees move in. Bees prefer a hive that is above the reach of bears who have been attacking them for thousands of years. They will use your hive at 6' if it is the best choice in the area.
Jim
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squidink
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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 01:06:46 AM »

Use some reverse psychology! Say its best that any swarms in the area take residence in the swarm trap and not some where on his property!
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 07:58:53 AM »

> However, our neighbour doesn't like it, he is worried that it 'might attract bees'.

It will NOT attract bees.  What it will do is offer any bees looking for a home a better home than the neighbor's soffett.  Bees don't swarm because there is a trap there.  They swarm because of other conditions.  Then they choose the trap because of smell, location etc. because they have to move somewhere.  If there is no trap, that somewhere might be the wall of a house, the soffet of a house, an old gas tank in a junk car that is dry, or a handy hollow spot in a tree.   They will move somewhere.  It's better they move into somewhere they can be managed.

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Michael Bush
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Moots
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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 08:57:14 AM »

> However, our neighbour doesn't like it, he is worried that it 'might attract bees'.

It will NOT attract bees.  What it will do is offer any bees looking for a home a better home than the neighbor's soffett.  Bees don't swarm because there is a trap there.  They swarm because of other conditions.  Then they choose the trap because of smell, location etc. because they have to move somewhere.  If there is no trap, that somewhere might be the wall of a house, the soffet of a house, an old gas tank in a junk car that is dry, or a handy hollow spot in a tree.   They will move somewhere.  It's better they move into somewhere they can be managed.



MB is 100% RIGHT!  Problem being, getting your neighbor to believe this will involve logic, reason, and the willingness to be educated on his part.  Unfortunately, there's an ever growing segment of the population that either doesn't possess the capability, or is simply unwilling to exercise these traits. 

The real question is, what category does your neighbor fall into?  If he's a reasonable guy and brighter than a small appliance light bulb...take a few minutes to explain the reality of how bees and a swarm trap operate, and you should be good to go.

If he's a PITA neighbor unwilling to listen to reason, it's probably easier just to move the trap and avoid the confrontation, even though his concerns are unfounded and inaccurate.

Good luck!  Smiley 
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 11:47:35 AM »

Let's try to put it in simple terms for the layman (neighbor). 

What happens when bees swarm:
They have built up enough bees and stores that they believe they can reproduce the colony (the superorganism) so the old queen and half the bees leave.  Now that they have left and bivouacked on a limb, they start looking for a place to start the new colony.  They check out every hole leading to every hollow in about 1/2 mile radius, including the holes in the neighbors soffet, your soffet, the wall of the barn, the walls of houses, hollow trees etc.  The scouts come back from this and dance for their favorite location and eventually the colony makes a decision about where to go.  If you have a nice baited (lemongrass essential oil and old comb) bait hive, they will likely move into that.  If you don't, they will move into whatever best meets their criteria.  Proof of this sequence is the fact that some even get stuck because they can find NO place suitable and they just stay on the limb and perish that winter because they have no home.

What does NOT happen (which the neighbor seems to be thinking):

The bees are sitting around one day and one comes back and reports a nice place to live.  Based on this report they decide to move into this new place rather than stay put.
 
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Michael Bush
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Moots
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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2013, 12:20:20 PM »

Let's try to put it in simple terms for the layman (neighbor).  

What happens when bees swarm:
They have built up enough bees and stores that they believe they can reproduce the colony (the superorganism) so the old queen and half the bees leave.  Now that they have left and bivouacked on a limb, they start looking for a place to start the new colony.  They check out every hole leading to every hollow in about 1/2 mile radius, including the holes in the neighbors soffet, your soffet, the wall of the barn, the walls of houses, hollow trees etc.  The scouts come back from this and dance for their favorite location and eventually the colony makes a decision about where to go.  If you have a nice baited (lemongrass essential oil and old comb) bait hive, they will likely move into that.  If you don't, they will move into whatever best meets their criteria.  Proof of this sequence is the fact that some even get stuck because they can find NO place suitable and they just stay on the limb and perish that winter because they have no home.

What does NOT happen (which the neighbor seems to be thinking):

The bees are sitting around one day and one comes back and reports a nice place to live.  Based on this report they decide to move into this new place rather than stay put.
 

Again....Another great explanation by MB.  

But I still say this "problem" is all about the neighbor!  If he fits into the first category I described, this explanation will make perfect sense to him and your swarm trap won't be an issue.  If he fits better into the second category, this explanation, or any other explanation, no matter how sound, logical, accurate, simplified, and well delivered, will do nothing to change his mind or make him comfortable with your swarm trap.

Again, Good Luck!  Smiley
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Spear
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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2013, 04:03:39 PM »

I know this has little or nothing to do with the swarm trap however it does have something to do with 'problem' neighbors.
Before I got my bees I made sure I asked as many of my neighbors as I could, I deturmaned that I would not keep my beekeeping a seceret from anyone! I live in 3 room apartment on the 3rd floor with a small garden down stairs - well I have to use of 3 ajoining gardens. My praposal of placing bees on my garden was welcomed by all I spoke to so I got 2 hives and set them up in the best location where they would not bother anyone - the bees have a clear flight route past any buildings into the street that is lower than the garden. One week after setting up I get a letter from one the neighbors that she has changed her mind about the bees because she is alergic and has seen some of my bees on her balcony - said balcony is on the far side of the building away from the hives on the 2nd floor, with no flowers or anything to attract bees. I maintain that it was wasps and  ot bees on the balcony! Any way My mother, who owns that flat, then gets a call from the body corp. saying the bees must go! My step father than phones them back and says that the bees can't be moved as thay are building up for winter etc. Anyway long story short - I get to keep my bees on my garden untill next spring atleast so I have time to convince my neighdor that the bees are no threat to her.
P.S: All my other neighbors are delighted with the bees right on the door step so to speak.

One last thing my son asked me this today: What is the most beautiful factory?
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squidink
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2013, 07:27:19 AM »

On the subject of neighbours I love mine! I'm breaking all the rules but they are more than happy with them!


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Mackayboi
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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2013, 09:38:18 AM »

What a great thing to share.
Quote
One last thing my son asked me this today: What is the most beautiful factory?

As with problem neighbours, in my experience, do what they want straight away, and then get them in a less negative frame of mind some weeks later and tell them the FACTS.
May still be hesitant, but they may have a better listening ear when they see you listened to them to begin with.

 
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bigsting
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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2013, 09:40:50 AM »

hi I would tell him that they are bitter in my trap than his letter box or in his wall or roof or in his BBQ and it is far cheaper for him to have them in your swam trap than pay for someone to cut them out of a wall and then repair the wall and next year he might be blessed to have a another the year and cost more cash I had my first swam arrive today only a small swam good 6 frame nuc size
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Spear
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2013, 03:24:27 PM »

What is the most beautiful factory?

A Bee yard or bee hive Smiley  Clever boy I have!
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johnauck
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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2013, 08:09:29 PM »


I did not actually speak to the neighbour when they complained. My wife tried to explain all facts similar to what Mr Bush and others have mentioned here. But I am afraid that the life cycle of bee colonies is probably too much information.

It is a good point though to remind them that a swarm is much more likely to take up residence in the trap than in their letterbox or wall cavity.

Anyway, I have since raised the box up into the tree it is now about 12 feet off the ground, better all around. We have not had any follow up complaints so I can only assume that they are satisfied that we have done 'something' to address their concerns.
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Moots
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« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2013, 08:15:33 PM »


I did not actually speak to the neighbour when they complained. My wife tried to explain all facts similar to what Mr Bush and others have mentioned here. But I am afraid that the life cycle of bee colonies is probably too much information.

It is a good point though to remind them that a swarm is much more likely to take up residence in the trap than in their letterbox or wall cavity.

Anyway, I have since raised the box up into the tree it is now about 12 feet off the ground, better all around. We have not had any follow up complaints so I can only assume that they are satisfied that we have done 'something' to address their concerns.

No news is good news!  Smiley

Glad it seems to be working out!
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rawfind
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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2013, 06:06:28 AM »


I did not actually speak to the neighbour when they complained. My wife tried to explain all facts similar to what Mr Bush and others have mentioned here. But I am afraid that the life cycle of bee colonies is probably too much information.

It is a good point though to remind them that a swarm is much more likely to take up residence in the trap than in their letterbox or wall cavity.

Anyway, I have since raised the box up into the tree it is now about 12 feet off the ground, better all around. We have not had any follow up complaints so I can only assume that they are satisfied that we have done 'something' to address their concerns.

 Losy my instructions, do i put a hole in the swarm lure or leave it closed? i can smell it even closed so i am guessing the bees can too

No news is good news!  Smiley

Glad it seems to be working out!
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Moots
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« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2013, 07:38:27 AM »


 Losy my instructions, do i put a hole in the swarm lure or leave it closed? i can smell it even closed so i am guessing the bees can too


Not sure what you are using as a lure?  I use lemon grass oil sealed in a plastic pipette, no need for a hole, the smell  permeates through the plastic.  Others put it on a q-tip or cotton ball....possibly in a small plastic bottle with a few small holes.

Think it safe to say, if you can smell it your good.  Smiley
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2013, 06:34:06 PM »


 Losy my instructions, do i put a hole in the swarm lure or leave it closed? i can smell it even closed so i am guessing the bees can too


Not sure what you are using as a lure?  I use lemon grass oil sealed in a plastic pipette, no need for a hole, the smell  permeates through the plastic.  Others put it on a q-tip or cotton ball....possibly in a small plastic bottle with a few small holes.

Think it safe to say, if you can smell it your good.  Smiley

Bought it from the bee supply plave its in a little tube it does smell like lemon
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BlueBee
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« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2013, 10:57:58 PM »

It is a good point though to remind them that a swarm is much more likely to take up residence in the trap than in their letterbox or wall cavity.

I wouldn't bet on it.....



I found that across the street last year. 

Maybe your neighbor will be like Moots. lau  I'm still laughing about his comments on neighbors. laugh laugh laugh
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