Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
October 23, 2014, 04:42:23 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Acidulating Sugar?  (Read 914 times)
GSF
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1761

Location: Central AL (nw corner of Elmore County)


« on: August 26, 2013, 04:16:29 PM »

I know there's different opinions on this. Today is the first time I read about it. If you put vinegar in your sugar water do you use white or apple cider or does it matter. I usually only make about a quart at a time. When I start back feeding this fall how much should I put in a quart?

I still haven't wrapped my brain around the whole acid issue thing. It'll probably take a few more readings.
Logged

"Life is hard, It's even harder when you're stupid."

John Wayne
Tightwad
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 56

Location: Ferguson MO


« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 06:24:23 PM »

I haven't herd of this yet ? huh
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13759


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 09:45:07 PM »

I have tried both.  Both set off a feeding frenzy in the yard and I have never used it again.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Roy Coates
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 54


Location: s/e Michigan


« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 10:08:33 PM »

i invert my syrup and use in hive feeders to prevent that robbing/feeding frenzy in the yard. I also use care not to spill any. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_sugar_syrup
Logged
TNBeeLady
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 66


Location: Woodbury, TN


« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 09:03:10 PM »

What does putting vinegar in the sugar water do?
Logged
GSF
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1761

Location: Central AL (nw corner of Elmore County)


« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2013, 07:51:05 AM »

I'm not really one to explain this but here's what I've read. There are differenting opinions about this subject. Some say when you feed sugar water to bees the PH is either too high or too low(?) Putting some vinegar in there makes the sugar water about the same PH as honey. They say the reason this is a bad thing is because it goof's up the bee's system making it more prone to certain diseases such as Nosema, AFB/EFB, and so on.

It got me to thinking, heck sugar isn't good for humans either so I was trying to figure out the merit behind this.
Logged

"Life is hard, It's even harder when you're stupid."

John Wayne
TNBeeLady
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 66


Location: Woodbury, TN


« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2013, 08:08:03 AM »

Thanks GSF.  Sounds like a good explanation to me!! Smiley
Logged
alfred
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 420


Location: Loveland Colorado USA


WWW
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2013, 09:26:43 AM »

An acid like vinegar or lemon juice is used to speed the process of creating the syrup. Invert sugar is a syrup where the glucose and the fructose of sugar(sucrose) have been split up. This is a hydrolysis reaction that can be achieved through heat alone but the acid serves as a catalyst thereby speeding up the reaction.

Honey is mostly glucose and fructose with small amounts of sucrose, maltose and other sugars. So it is very similar to invert sugar syrup. Both are sweeter than plain sugar. Both are more stable as a syrup. Invert sugar is less likely to crystalize in your feeder. Bees love it and it can set off a frenzy. I am always careful not to spill it around the hives when I feed with it. I like it because they seem to take more of it, and that is the point of feeding. I also like it because I can put a lot of it in a feeder and leave it and not have to worry as much about the feeder getting all crystalized. On the other hand it is a little of a pain to make and then needs to cool before you feed it.
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13759


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2013, 10:15:41 AM »

The pH of honey and the pH of sugar syrup are quite different.  One effect of this is the bacteria in the gut of the bees (which protects against nosema, AFB, EFB and Chalkbrood) does not do well with sugar syrup.  Ascorbic acid seems to do nothing to set off robbing.  Vinegar sets off massive robbing in my experience.  It's the smell, I sure, as when using vinegar the bees will come out to meet you.  Inversion is a side effect of the acid, not an effect I am looking for.  The syrup keeps much longer at a pH of 4.5 or so.

Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
alfred
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 420


Location: Loveland Colorado USA


WWW
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2013, 12:25:16 PM »

So you would add the ascorbic acid in order to bring the ph of the syrup to 4.5 so that it is better for the bees intestinal fauna?
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13759


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2013, 12:43:18 PM »

>So you would add the ascorbic acid in order to bring the ph of the syrup to 4.5 so that it is better for the bees intestinal fauna?

Yes.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
alfred
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 420


Location: Loveland Colorado USA


WWW
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2013, 02:34:23 PM »

Very interesting!
Thanks for the info!

Alfred
Logged
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2013, 11:29:42 PM »

I have used apple cider vinegar in my simple syrup for over 50 years and have never had a problem with the adding of it to the syrup setting off robbing, me thinks there were other factors present. 
1 tsp per quart of syrup or a tbsp per gallon is all that is needed.  The bees will take the syrup better when cider vinegar is used.
Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.503 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page October 21, 2014, 12:05:56 AM
anything