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Author Topic: Fall Treatment for Varro Mites  (Read 2217 times)
Parksguyy
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« on: August 26, 2013, 11:32:19 AM »

Hi Everyone,
Cdn beek here, having just done a mite count it would appear that I have to do some form of treatment.  My thought was to us Thymovar, since it is an organic treatment.  My question, and lets expand that to include anyone who might use MAQS, Apivar or Apistan.  Most of these treatments tend to be temperature dependent, so in the case of Thymovar, its best applied when temps are 20-25 degrees ... question, does this take into account high humidix readings above 30 degrees.  An example would be a daytime temperature of 25 but with the humidex, it feels like 30 degrees or more.  I'm assuming this is likely not a good thing and could lead to some bee mortality.  If anyone has some thoughts on this great!
   
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T Beek
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 11:45:11 AM »

Hmm, treating is sometimes no treat at all. Sad
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JWChesnut
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 12:19:48 PM »

The release of vapors (thymol and formic) are determined by heat.  Humidity actually depresses the rate somewhat.   The human heat index is a reflection that sweat doesn't evaporate well when humidity is high.  If formic is diluted in water the vapor release is depressed.
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capt44
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 12:57:12 PM »

I did the sugar roll test and drone cell check for varroa mites and found I need to treat also.
I use Formic Acid in September when the Forecasted temperature drops to 85 degrees F or below for around 7 days.
I put the strips in the hives and treat for 5 days then remove them.
Last season I had a moderate mortality rate on the old bees.
By winter I had strong hives going into winter.
I checked there food stores in mid February and the 4th of March the State inspector checked my hives.
He said the population was ready to explode and there were drones walking around on the foundations which mean't the queen started laying around the 1st of February or so.
All hives did good all season.
I am in Central Arkansas in the foothills of the Ozarks.
I do believe in treatments.
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Richard Vardaman (capt44)
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 11:06:07 AM »

I know there's been a few days since the last post on this thread but I wanted to open it up again and ask some additional questions.

Does anyone use the method that FBM uses with the FGMO, if so how long have you been using it and what is your take on it? Did you use it last fall and what did your hives do this spring?

I'm in central Al and this will be my first winter with bees. I don't want to lose them because of non treatment and I don't want to mess them up with a bunch of residuous chemicals that aren't necessary either.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2013, 12:02:55 PM »

Sorry GSF, I do not use any treatments. The problem with that is that when you start out doing this, you have to expect losses. You are hoping to have survivors to build good strong hives from.
The big question is where did you get your hives from?
Were they feral? Then they probably have good genetics to survive.
Did you buy them? Did the seller use treatments, if so you will also need to treat. If you bought them, ask what they use.
Jim
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tjc1
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2013, 08:02:05 PM »

I used MAQS last fall and am in the middle of a treatment right now. Essentially, I would report the same thing as Capt44 - I am in New England, though. They went into winter in good shape and came out of it strong in the spring. There is some mortality, but the bees have seemed to take it pretty well both times, with small losses.
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T Beek
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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 05:49:00 AM »

Sorry GSF, I do not use any treatments. The problem with that is that when you start out doing this, you have to expect losses. You are hoping to have survivors to build good strong hives from.
The big question is where did you get your hives from?
Were they feral? Then they probably have good genetics to survive.
Did you buy them? Did the seller use treatments, if so you will also need to treat. If you bought them, ask what they use.
Jim

Right on!  Treating with (man-made) chemicals simply contributes more contaminants to our bees.  Just say NOooooooooooooooo!  (I'm talking to the wind)
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tjc1
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 09:29:25 PM »

I don't think that I would have used anything, except that the MAQS being just formic acid, a naturally occurring chemical in the hive, seemed a fairly benign idea. T Beek and Sawdustmakr, what say you?
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T Beek
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2013, 04:26:18 AM »

No way. 

Formic acid 'may' be normally occurring in a hive but not when beeks put it there.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2013, 05:23:06 AM »

I don't think that I would have used anything, except that the MAQS being just formic acid, a naturally occurring chemical in the hive, seemed a fairly benign idea. T Beek and Sawdustmakr, what say you?
I bought a container of Mitaway II a couple of years ago after my father-in-law suggested I try it to get rid of SHBs. I was killing thousands every month in every hive in the oil trays and the hives still had a lot of SHBs. When I received it, after reading the label, I found out that our temps were way to high most of the year. When it cooled down, I tested it in an empty hive that I had allowed the SHBs to get into to see if it would work. When I opened it up a few days later, I found holes in the top and bottom screens due to the acid eating it away.
I still have the almost full container of Mitaway II that I will gladly give to anyone that wants it.
I offered it to everyone that came to our club picnic here at my house last month and had no takers. It cost $60.
Jim
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"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain
T Beek
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2013, 07:49:23 AM »

I don't think that I would have used anything, except that the MAQS being just formic acid, a naturally occurring chemical in the hive, seemed a fairly benign idea. T Beek and Sawdustmakr, what say you?
I bought a container of Mitaway II a couple of years ago after my father-in-law suggested I try it to get rid of SHBs. I was killing thousands every month in every hive in the oil trays and the hives still had a lot of SHBs. When I received it, after reading the label, I found out that our temps were way to high most of the year. When it cooled down, I tested it in an empty hive that I had allowed the SHBs to get into to see if it would work. When I opened it up a few days later, I found holes in the top and bottom screens due to the acid eating it away.
I still have the almost full container of Mitaway II that I will gladly give to anyone that wants it.
I offered it to everyone that came to our club picnic here at my house last month and had no takers. It cost $60.
Jim

That is a common problem.  What to do with it, either the left-overs or un-used.  Our County has an annual "clean sweep" when folks can bring just about anything they want to get rid of "properly" from old appliances to used motor oil.  IMO it should happen every month.
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rober
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2013, 11:34:56 AM »

i tried mite away last year. i used 1/2 the recomended amount & only for 1 week. . it killed my best queen. no one here is interested in the treatments i have left. i'm trying apiguard this year & only on heavily infested hives. i do not want to treat at all but cannot afford the high winter losses i've had when i did not treat. hopefully my resistant hives will some day outnumber my hives needing treatment & i'll end up with a chemical free apiary.
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D Coates
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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2013, 03:00:37 PM »

I tried the no treatments..., once.  After loosing 14 of 15 and then watching the one hive that survived supersede I said never again.  I went back to fall treatments last year Hopguard, Drone removal with a topper of AO vapor.  15 of 15 survived but of the 17 nucs I had that year and did not treatment I lost 12.  I'm no mathematician but I've seen I'll I need to see know my plan of action.   Those are my results for what I choose to do in my apiary. 

Others may tell me I'm doing wrong and even possibly call me an "internet bully" because I dare to not subscribe to their dogma.  That's the great thing about bees.  You get to keep them how you choose to keep them.  Take what everyone says with a grain of salt (me included) and set you own direction.
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capt44
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 12:10:11 AM »

The temperatures are falling into the low to mid 80's here for the next 7 days so I'm going to treat every one of my hives tomorrow for 5 days.
I will be using the Mite away strips (Formic Acid)
I know I have varroa mites so I won't stand by and let them take over.
I've seen so many hives fail when folks won't treat.
I personally treat my bees with chemicals and usually have strong hives going into winter and strong hives around the 1st of March.
The end of this month all of my hives in all 4 bee yards will be inspected by the State Apiary Inspector.
Around the 1st part of March they will be inspected again and Health Certificates Issued.
Bee Keeping is different today than it was prior to the 1980's.
It's kinda like a dog, if it is eat up by Ticks you will treat the dog for ticks.
Usually a Dip, drops, spray, or a pill.
A person going into mosquito country will use a spray or pill to ward them off.
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Richard Vardaman (capt44)
T Beek
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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2013, 05:36:05 AM »

"difrnt strokes for difrnt folks" 

Nothing in my hives that wasn't put there by bees  cool  except sugar.............as needed.

Good luck to all!
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RHBee
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« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2013, 06:11:49 AM »

"difrnt strokes for difrnt folks" 

Nothing in my hives that wasn't put there by bees  cool  except sugar.............as needed.

Good luck to all!

That's right. I like the idea of resistant stock. The trouble is finding them. I've read that you have to be willing to lose a lot of bees. I'm not sure that I have enough time to allow nature to sort it all out. I'm sitting on the fence right now and looking for natural methods.
On that thought, on another forum, I've read about using HBH 4X drench for varroa control. Anyone tried that?
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Later,
Ray
T Beek
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« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2013, 07:39:41 AM »

"difrnt strokes for difrnt folks"  

Nothing in my hives that wasn't put there by bees  cool  except sugar.............as needed.

Good luck to all!

That's right. I like the idea of resistant stock. The trouble is finding them. I've read that you have to be willing to lose a lot of bees. I'm not sure that I have enough time to allow nature to sort it all out. I'm sitting on the fence right now and looking for natural methods.
On that thought, on another forum, I've read about using HBH 4X drench for varroa control. Anyone tried that?

Agreed; Personally I feel the responsibility belongs to us all to develop resistant bees in our own particular regions.  I also feel that these regions should ban bees from other regions and visa verse, but that is for another thread.  

It certainly takes takes more than 'one' season to build resistant stock, particularly if starting with 'treated' bees, along with a firm commitment to developing and maintaining your own resistant, regional bees. I've been treatment free since 2007 and am still not completely satisfied with the overall results, but am contending with all the other environmental issues just like everyone else.  Regardless I remain committed to treatment free bees as a personal beekeeping philosophy.

Treatment free bees as a package are available but admittedly pricey, right now.  However, "if" more beeks start demanding treatment free packages it will help bring the price down.  

As "treatment free" beekeeping catches on, and I'm not alone in believing it must, and more beeks begin depending on their own survivor bees and/or provided by  reputable "regional" beekeepers (a growing movement already, small regional NUC Producers) and demanding treatment free from package producers........

Well, what would be wrong about that?  We already know what would be right, right?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 07:54:53 AM by T Beek » Logged

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MsCarol
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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2013, 09:37:17 AM »

I am beginning to believe that beeks should/could approach "treating" much the same way goat folks have had to treat for internal parasites. It had become standard veterinary practice to worm on a schedule, but with parasite resistance to the available worming medications, it reached the point that not only was it difficult to get medication free goat products, but the economics of continually treating was putting folks out of business. Most breeders and veterinarians abandoned the "scheduled" treatment in favor of only treating the animals in a herd that were negatively affected in addition to culling those animals out of the breeding herd.

So along those lines, possibly treating only the bees that seem to be carrying too large a load of these "parasites" (varroa) while choosing the stronger more resistant hives to requeen with. Plus add some management that helps the bees help themselves.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2013, 10:41:38 AM »

>The trouble is finding them.

They are all around you...
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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