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Offline 10framer

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got a lucky break today
« on: August 20, 2013, 08:11:10 PM »
i was on a job site today and the super asked me "what kind of tree do you think that is?".  i looked at it and it was a chinese tallow.  we started looking around and found a few saplings.  i'm going to pot them this weekend.  the tree is covered in seed pods.  does anyone know if i need to wait for the pods to dry out or can i go ahead and pull some now and let them dry off of the tree?

Offline kathyp

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2013, 08:25:37 PM »
don't know about planting them, but be aware that they spread.  at least in my area they do.  they are also kind of brittle.  plant them where they won't hurt anything will falling branches and where you can keep them under some kind of control.

the bees do love them!
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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Offline GSF

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2013, 08:32:08 PM »
I don't know but I'm pretty sure they aren't fully mature yet. We call them popcorn trees around here. When the seed is ready to fall of the tree it looks like the tree is decorated with popcorn. I don't know what the germination rate is tho. You may want to get a bunch of seed. I think it's four or five seed per pod.

Personally I have destroyed all the tallow trees around my place that I set out years ago. They are incredibilly invasive. Goats won't eat them either. Something about them having some element that retards nutrient uptake. I agree they have pretty fall foliage but I've seen them dominate the landscape and take over native species. Birds will fly off with the seeds and drop them thus helping them to spread. Squirrels as well.
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Offline 10framer

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2013, 09:26:49 PM »
yeah, i've been reading a little.  they are being looked at for biodiesel production.  this tree is maybe 30 feet tall and has thousands if not tens of thousands of seed pods.
i knew they were invasive and i've been trying to decide if i want to plant some or not.  i've been trying to find out how much nectar one large tree yields vs. an acre of clover or a tulip poplar. 

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 10:01:30 PM »
10,
Think twice before planting. I have a large popcorn tree up against my barn that is only still there because my wife loves it. A fellow long time rancher friend told me years ago to cut it down. He has had acreage taken over by those trees. I have to remove all of the new ones to keep them under control. It is a shame they don't bloom during the summer, I would let them grow. As it is they bloom at the same time as palmetto and black gum and it is not the bees number one choice of the three.
Jim
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Offline Moots

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 10:49:51 PM »
OK....
Maybe I'm wrong on this one, or just in the minority...But I just don't see the Chinese Tallow as the big bad monster it's being described as here.  YES! I get that it's a trash tree and an invasive species...But reading these post, one would think it spreads faster than a cross between Kudzu and a wild fire. 

Close to 40 years ago I bought a Chinese Tallow seedling in a milk carton at a school plant sale and brought it home to my mother.   We planted it as a shade tree outside her bedroom window...It didn't take over the house or swallow up the backyard...It grew fairly quickly, developed into a decent shade tree, and that was pretty much it.

Yes they are fairly common in the area and are known mostly for growing up along un-kept fence lines because of seeds being spread by birds.  But as for swallowing up endless acres...I just haven't seen it.
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Offline 10framer

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 11:09:44 PM »
moots apparently they have taken over large areas in florida from what i've read.  a study i've been reading from closer to you says that the heavy seed producers are actually kind of rare.  they will grow in shade and eventually choke out some oaks and gum trees.  the leaves change soil chemistry when they break down and if one gets damaged it puts out a lot of shoots from its root system and kind of makes a thicket. 
jim, from what i understand it's a major flow in texas and louisiana.  i don't have palmettos and i probably don't have any black gum.  i'm told this tree was blooming in june but i've read that it blooms between april and may.   

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 11:55:14 PM »

jim, from what i understand it's a major flow in texas and louisiana.  i don't have palmettos and i probably don't have any black gum.  i'm told this tree was blooming in june but i've read that it blooms between april and may.   
10,
April - May is when my main flow is on at the farm. My first year the honey was real dark and my mentor said that it was probably the Chinese Tallow. I have not had dark honey ever since.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline GSF

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2013, 09:20:52 AM »
The ones I cut down didn't hesitate to send up shoots from the root system and the stump.

Moots, maybe geography is the difference? don't know, just thinking out loud.
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Offline Moots

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2013, 10:45:42 AM »

Moots, maybe geography is the difference? don't know, just thinking out loud.

GSF,
I'm thinking that may be the case....  :)
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Offline 10framer

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2013, 10:55:22 AM »
i may keep a couple in containers for a few years and see what happens.  this should stop the runner problem and i'll try to control  the seed situation on my own.  from what i've read the trees are harvested between 3 and 5 years in commercial operations.  if i keep them in containers and the bees don't work them i can move them with my tractor and burn them.  it they do work them i can cut them down every few years and contain the regeneration process.  that way they never reach the point of producing 100,000 seeds like they are said to do.  i've still got some time to think about it.  i'm sure i wouldn't live to see it but i'd hate to be the guy that destroyed the ecosystem along the flint river.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2013, 12:10:33 PM »
i may keep a couple in containers for a few years and see what happens.  this should stop the runner problem and i'll try to control  the seed situation on my own.  from what i've read the trees are harvested between 3 and 5 years in commercial operations.  if i keep them in containers and the bees don't work them i can move them with my tractor and burn them.  it they do work them i can cut them down every few years and contain the regeneration process.  that way they never reach the point of producing 100,000 seeds like they are said to do.  i've still got some time to think about it.  i'm sure i wouldn't live to see it but i'd hate to be the guy that destroyed the ecosystem along the flint river.
Keep in mind, the birds and squirrels take the seeds a long way. As I was warned, they sprout up all over my property.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline Moots

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2013, 12:36:56 PM »

Keep in mind, the birds and squirrels take the seeds a long way. As I was warned, they sprout up all over my property.
Jim

Yes they do, including across property lines.... :-D

That's why I'm not sure I would get too caught up in worrying about if I wanted to plant a couple of tallow trees or not...in the big scheme of things, I'm not convinced it makes that much of a difference.
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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Offline Tightwad

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2013, 07:09:26 PM »
I don't know this tree, but I got three bee bee trees. I transplanted this week end I'm hopeful that they will make it. There roots Rant  much and they have a long tap root that I dent get a lot off ?

Offline Carol

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2013, 07:28:13 PM »
Never knew what a Chinese Tallow was until I got bees and started looking at the trees ...thrilled to find I had one...then realized it was more like 7 and those are only the ones I can see. I was disappointed to see the bees flying somewhere else...only spotted them on the Tallow for a short time. Must have been something they like better. Definately invasive here in FL.

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2013, 10:45:41 PM »
The honey that I got from my first hive in 2010 was pretty dark and floral tasting. I was told it had a lot of popcorn nectar in it. I just found 2 jars of it in the back of a closet. It is now very dark and it tastes like licorice. Unless you are looking for honey that tastes like licorice be sure to use it up within the first 2 years.
I have not gotten any dark springs honey since that first year.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline 10framer

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2013, 11:04:59 PM »
The honey that I got from my first hive in 2010 was pretty dark and floral tasting. I was told it had a lot of popcorn nectar in it. I just found 2 jars of it in the back of a closet. It is now very dark and it tastes like licorice. Unless you are looking for honey that tastes like licorice be sure to use it up within the first 2 years.
I have not gotten any dark springs honey since that first year.
Jim

i hate licorice.  i'm just trying to fill the gap between may and august where it seems like the bees had nothing to work.  i planted some vitex and butterfly bushes this year and only saw native pollinators working it.  but, that's all i saw working sumac and my buckwheat but i have some honey that is definitely sumac being stored right now and a couple of hives definitely brought brought in some buckwheat.  this is the first year i've had bees on this land and it's been terrible weather so i may be underestimating the flows but i don't know.

Offline Moots

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2013, 06:27:32 PM »

i hate licorice.  i'm just trying to fill the gap between may and august where it seems like the bees had nothing to work.  i planted some vitex and butterfly bushes this year and only saw native pollinators working it.  but, that's all i saw working sumac and my buckwheat but i have some honey that is definitely sumac being stored right now and a couple of hives definitely brought brought in some buckwheat.  this is the first year i've had bees on this land and it's been terrible weather so i may be underestimating the flows but i don't know.

10framer,
Playing around on the internet and stumbled across the following article talking about a plant guide that the LSU AgCenter had available.  Here's a LINK to the full article!

I thought the following quote concerning Chinese Tallow Honey was especially interesting:

"Louisiana is the only state where Chinese tallow tree honey - the top source for the majority of Louisiana's honey - is usable as a table honey, he said. "It's something to do about soil conditions," he said in an interview Tuesday."
"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan

Offline Joe D

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2013, 07:16:37 PM »
The Chinese Tallow is invasive, but the honey  made from it is a lot.  A commercial beek in our club said he could make a seasons honey off a good stand of it.  This year in our area the weather messed up a lot of our flows.  One fellow in our club had either 10 or 11 hives moved them to a grove of Tallow trees, just for the flow, he got 165 gals of honey there.  I have planted some this year.   Back when I farmed I bush-hogged privet hedge, Sumac and a lot of the things I don't now.
 Our Golden Rod is just starting to bloom, there is at least 100 acres with in a mile to a mile and  a half.  Good luck with your bees this winter.



Joe

Offline millipede

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Re: got a lucky break today
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2013, 12:20:47 AM »
I don't have any tallows in my yard but the neighbor has 5 or 6. Plus there are a few up and down the street. I do get bird and squirrel drops but I just mow them down. The bees here love them. Between tallow and vitex, my bees bring in loads of nectar.

 

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