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Author Topic: When is it too late to re Queen  (Read 1793 times)
Carol
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« on: August 20, 2013, 01:56:51 PM »

Had 2 swarms  July 26th and 29th. (possible there was a swarm before we got home)  Checked the hive yesterday. It has been 21 days since last swarm.  I didn't see any eggs or larva (even with magnifying glass). I was really surprised because the hive seems to be acting normal..no loud roaring....very calm (no stings while checking) even my husband was surprised at how nice they were. Bringing in pollen...seemed to be going about their business. (at least, to a newbee).

Trying to find another Queen....at what point would it be a waste of time to add a Queen.

There are a few cells in the pictures that confuse me. I'm sure it is just light colored pollen. They look so obvious I don't think I could have missed them..but they could have been covered with bees when I looked. There doesn't seem to be a pattern. Just one or two here and there.






 huh
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iddee
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2013, 03:30:43 PM »

In central Fl. I would say you have plenty of time.

I would first look for an area of very clean, even shiny, cells on otherwise populated frames. They clean and polish an area a few days before she starts laying. Look for an area amongst open nectar where you would think there would be more nectar, but the cells are totally empty and extremely clean, to the point of reflecting light off the bottom and sides. If you have them, you will have eggs within 3 to 5 days.

The other signs all point to queenrite.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Carol
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2013, 03:37:00 PM »

Iddee... OK....can I wait another week before checking? Or do it right away. I just checked it yesterday. How long can a hive with no brood  (moved a frame of capped brood after the first swarm on the 26th. there may have been more...did not mess with the rest of the brood nest). So....I know I had at least one frame of capped brood on July 26th. How long from then can I wait to requeen before the hive is in danger of not being able to support a Queen.
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iddee
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2013, 06:12:31 PM »

It varies, but I would say 30 days plus. You can do it now or next week. Doesn't matter. It would be better to wait a few days, to give a possible new queen already there time to start laying. Many bought queens are placed in hives a few days before the young queen starts laying, where a bit of patience would have made the new one unnecessary.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Carol
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 08:49:24 PM »

Thanks so much...hope you are right...I'll give it a few days and do another check....I've emailed a bunch of bee suppliers but so far have had no luck finding a Queen so it might not matter. Hate to lose the hive...I have so much fun watching them..but can start again in the spring if I have to.
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iddee
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 09:34:11 PM »

Send Hardwood a PM and ask him if he is going to combine some hives in the near future, and could you have a queen from one of them if he does.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 09:34:30 PM »

Carol,
It sounds like you have a new queen. It takes time for her get mated and to start mating. My observation hive swarmed on 1 August and on 8 August I noticed 2 of the new emergency cells in the hive were being destroyed which meant that a swarm cell queen hatched. It was another week before I saw the new queen and another 2 days before I saw her trying to lay eggs and she had a royal court. Today is day 20 after they swarmed and I still do not see a single egg or larvae in the hive even though it looked like she was laying several days ago. Like yours, the bees have been very quiet. They did back fill the brood frames and are now emptying the cells for her.
I strongly recommend you try to stay out of the hive for at least 10 days to let her prove she is a good before you go into it again. When you do try to use as little smoke as possible and be real gentle to keep the bees from taking their frustration out on your new queen.
My OB hive is almost full of honey and I need to remove at least 4 frames to keep them from swarming again but I will not go into it until she has had enough time to prove her self.
Jim
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Carol
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2013, 09:03:18 AM »

Thanks for the suggestions...I really don't like going in the hive. Always afraid I'll do more harm than good. I keep my smoker nearby...but use it more on myself than on the bees. I try to smoke my hands and body then if I get some buzzing my veil I just step over and let it smoke my face...did that the last 2 hive checks and no stings. If I get too many liking my hands I just resmoke them. So far...it has worked well...but that is only 2 hive checks. Maybe I'm getting less nervous and slowing down a bit too.

So lucky to have an OB....I keep hinting to my husband...just need to find the right place to put it...then I might get him going on one.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2013, 11:25:26 AM »

Thanks for the suggestions...I really don't like going in the hive. Always afraid I'll do more harm than good. I keep my smoker nearby...but use it more on myself than on the bees. I try to smoke my hands and body then if I get some buzzing my veil I just step over and let it smoke my face...did that the last 2 hive checks and no stings. If I get too many liking my hands I just resmoke them. So far...it has worked well...but that is only 2 hive checks. Maybe I'm getting less nervous and slowing down a bit too.

So lucky to have an OB....I keep hinting to my husband...just need to find the right place to put it...then I might get him going on one.
I built my OB first, knowing my wife would not allow it in the house. Made sure it looked real nice, all black walnut. Showed it off at a party at the farm, on the kitchen table. On the way home she wanted to know where we were going to put it in the home in town. Now it is her hive. When it was about to swarm the day before leaving for a 2 week vacation, she helped me open it up and pull 4 capped frames of honey out of and replace them with foundation. 4 weeks later, it filled them back up and we caught the swarm, it was as big as any normal swarm.
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Carol
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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2013, 02:32:02 PM »

Went back over my pictures...any chance this could be a Queen? It's hard to see but looks like it's butt is way down in the cell....not a lot of bees around her though.




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Carol
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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2013, 03:27:35 PM »

Probably wishfull thinking...but looks like more girls with their heads in the cells....cleaning.....than in some of my other pictures. I can zoom in on my picture here...don't know if you can tell or not. Fingers crossed.
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GSF
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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2013, 03:49:36 PM »

That's not a queen. Of course there is so much about bee keeping I don't know. More experienced folks may prove me wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm right.
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Carol
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2013, 06:22:40 PM »

I've found a Queen supplier....will have them until thru Sept and early Oct.   Don't know how long it will take to get one...but at least I have a place to get one if I dont have one in the hive...feel much better...I was getting worried.
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trimman
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2013, 07:15:08 PM »

call dadant in high springs florida they generaly have them on hand now
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Carol
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« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 01:50:11 PM »

"I would first look for an area of very clean, even shiny, cells on otherwise populated frames. They clean and polish an area a few days before she starts laying. Look for an area amongst open nectar where you would think there would be more nectar, but the cells are totally empty and extremely clean, to the point of reflecting light off the bottom and sides. If you have them, you will have eggs within 3 to 5 days."

Iddee:  If you save the last picture to your computer  (in post with 3)  and zoom in on it...those cells are all nice and shiny...but not a lot of pollen etc around them.
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iddee
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« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2013, 02:24:44 PM »

The ones I am referring to will have stores around them. No queen will lay when the pantry is empty. Is there any food in the hive any where? I don't see any in the pics.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Carol
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« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2013, 03:26:01 PM »

 Iddee;     Yes...2 frames of honey and a few frames with nectar and pollen. Some of the pictures came out blurry. Jim did a better job this time...but I didn't get the angle right for looking into the cells. Each time we learn something new.

Have another prospect for a Queen if I need one.
How is your OB hive doing.

These are the only clear ones with pollen & nectar



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iddee
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« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2013, 08:53:55 PM »

They are in dire need of food. I would start feeding heavily. Pollen, I see, but not one capped cell of honey.

I don't have an OB hive.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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RC
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« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2013, 09:04:57 PM »

Hey, Carol. There are a few sources for queens near you. Dadant in High Springs,Carpenter Apaires in Frostproof, Miska, Florida Queens or something like that. Used to be Bobs Honey. I have several contacts that I can pm you if needed.
Personally, I would prefer Carpenters. Good people, excellent queens.
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Carol
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« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2013, 09:41:54 PM »

I've two from GA get back to me. They have Queens. Miksa Honey Farm doesn't have any now. Do you know anyone that is treatment free or natural cell? 

I had an offer of a Queen from Sam Comfort..but I havn't been able to reach him lately. 

I'm going to do another check at the end of the week or early next week. If no sign...then I will definately need one.

Iddee....they have 2 medium frames of honey...I didn't take pictures of that.......but I will feed them...thanks.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2013, 09:49:39 PM »

Carol,
I have been checking the OB every day. I have seen 2 different queens now. The first in was a tiger stripe. Now I am seeing a large golden with a dark tip on the abdomen. The last 2 times she has been on capped honey frames with no royal court and she quickly hides after I remove the cover. The hive is still very full. I have no visible eggs and no hot spots in the brood like there is when there is brooding the hive. I need to remove 3 or 4 capped frames to give them space to work but I will not touch this hive until she is well established.
Jim
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iddee
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« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2013, 10:10:56 PM »

OK. I was just going by the pics. If one of the 2 in Ga. is fatbeeman, he is treatment free.If not, you may want to contact him.

http://www.dixiebeesupply.com/Dixiebeesupply/Don_Kuchenmeister,_The_Fat_Bee_Man.html
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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RC
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« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2013, 07:32:39 AM »

Carpenter Apaires is treatment free, been so for a long time.
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Carol
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« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2013, 11:40:46 AM »

Sent them both emails....hope I don't need one but it's nice to know they are still available.

Iddee:   must be nice to know you have a Queen. Mated? 
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Carol
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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2013, 12:23:59 PM »

sawdstmakr :    anything going on in the OB?   eggs? 
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2013, 10:23:12 PM »

sawdstmakr :    anything going on in the OB?   eggs?  

Yes,
For the last couple of days we have been seeing the queen laying eggs one after another. I saw one 6 day old larvae 2 days ago. Probably the first egg that she laid. Now I can see royal jelly and 3-5 day old larvae all over the deep frames. It is very hard to see the eggs. I have looked at cells right after the queen leaves a cell and cannot see them even with a bright flashlight. The bees have moved all of the honey off of the brood frames except for around the top corners. There is 2 to 3" of pollen across the top and just below the honey in the corners on both deep frames.
Jim
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 10:38:35 PM by sawdstmakr » Logged
sawdstmakr
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2013, 10:49:10 PM »

Here are a few pictures.they were all taken in the vertices position and show up that way in the photo gallery. I do not know how to turn them. If some one knows how to do it please let me know.










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sc-bee
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« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2013, 06:08:50 AM »

Here are a few pictures.they were all taken in the vertices position and show up that way in the photo gallery. I do not know how to turn them. If some one knows how to do it please let me know


I usually rotate them with the camera software or microsoft photo editor before saving and posting.
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Carol
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« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2013, 11:22:42 AM »

Sooooo jealous....would love to have that by my chair.

You still havn't taken any more honey have you?
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2013, 08:38:49 PM »

Sooooo jealous....would love to have that by my chair.

You still haven't taken any more honey have you?

Carol,
Thanks. No I have not. The queen has not had a chance to prove she is a good queen yet. If I do open it up right now the bees may take it out on the Q. When it is full of brood and brood pheromone, I think it will be safe to open it up and remove the honey. I plan on pulling it this Friday. We and pulling honey from the rest of the hives on Saturday.
4 years ago I told my wife that I would like to have a observation hive. She bought me bee books for my birthday and I was hooked. The first thing I learned (from reading) was you needed full hives to keep an ob hive. I have only had to add one queen after the first one swarmed and none of queen cells survived.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 08:58:46 PM by sawdstmakr » Logged
Carol
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« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2013, 08:50:00 PM »

Maybe a few pictures then?  You can rotate them on the computer before posting. If you use Windows Photo Gallery there is a "fix" button and curved arrows so you can rotate them either direction.

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