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Author Topic: Mixed split?  (Read 3500 times)

Offline 10framer

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Re: Mixed split?
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2013, 01:14:06 AM »
i get that but a couple of frames from each hive to make individual colonies does the same thing but increases the number of hives you can do it with the following season.  your original hives aren't losing any more this way but your splits most likely won't produce a surplus the first season (but you never know one or two might take off and do it). in march i had a 5 frame medium nuc and two ten frame deeps but i ended the season with 9 ten frame hives 2 of them are a deep with 2 mediums and i did pull a little honey.  this year i start with those nine and as it stands i'm definitely splitting 7 of them in march and will make queen rearing nucs from the the hives that don't get split in that first round a couple of weeks later.  if the weather isn't as bad as it was this year i may split hives again as soon as the first of may and pull some surplus.  that will give those hives part of the tulip poplar and all of the privet flow to fill up and i'm going to time a few acres of buckwheat to bloom in june.  after that i may make select splits at the end of july again and let those hives build up on sumac and goldenrod. through all that i may only get 8 or 10 supers of honey but that's plenty to get me through the year plus hand out a bunch at christmas. i'm more concerned with producing bees than honey for the next few years.  i've got 4 or 5 places i can set outyards near the flint but away from peaches and soybeans, i need to be making the hives to put in those spots before they get away from me.

Offline sterling

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Re: Mixed split?
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2013, 12:36:51 PM »
There are a few other folks on here more into the scientific end of beekeeping and call tell you how many generations the genetics of the Russian would pass down and be of benefit in your yard.

I know for a fact some Russian breeders open mate their queens and are in the Russian bee program. So how huge an area would you have to have isolated to actually have a russian queen. How far does the DCA extend. Several mile radius but maybe closer to 1 or 1 1/2? I'm have no idea but large. So from the get go if your queen is not an artificial insemination from pure start you are behind the eight ball from the beginning.

Then when your new queen mates in your yard? How much land do you own. Well I can't see the queen being considered Russian long. But how long to the traits carry down as in varroa resistance etc. If it gives some resistance in your bees then it is worth it. I will admit I have bought a few that a queen producer calls Russian hybrids. At least this is up front on what you are getting.

The original USDA program i think was isolated on an island in La. Not sure but I am sure others will pick up on this thread and correct me in my errs  :-D I am not slamming the program. If they are certified Russian Breeders they hold strict standards. They have a set number of lines they have color coded to reference. Each breeder gets bees from a certain color code to maintain. Then they swap the lines between each other to keep up with the lines and diversity.

Here is a well know Russian breeders web page. Read his recommendations on keeping Russian yards separate from others:

Stick with local proven queens if you can.

About the Russian queens. I may be confused so help me out. When you buy a Russian queen from a Russian breeder she should be 100% Russian. The breeder used an artificially inseminated queen to produce an egg which turned into a larva which was grafted into a queen cell and emerged as a queen with Russian genetics only because her mother was Russian and her daddy was Russian. Now she open mates with whoever and then her daughters are hybrids unless the queen that open mated did so with a Russian drone. So maybe I'm wrong but you start out with a Russian queen not a hybrid.
The other thing I'm confused about is. Why after a few generation you no longer have Russian genetics but after a few generation you still have Italians and Carnis in an area where there are Russian drones Italian drones Carnis drones and feral drones. Do Italians and Carnis trump Russian and feral genetics?

Offline OldMech

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Re: Mixed split?
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2013, 10:09:09 PM »
It depends on what you buy.. a breeder queen will be pure, anything else will be a combination.. each queen will mate with 10 - 15 drones.. I have read 20 in some estimates, so the genetics from egg to egg she lays will be different.
   The genetics do fade with each generation, so its up to you to select, and continue the traits you want..  two daughter queens from that Russian queen may show very different resistances, you re queen the bad one and keep the good one going to maintain the russian traits..
   I call my hives Italian or Carny, but its mostly based on their color and their habits..  Italians are yellower, Carnys are darker. Italians winter with bigger clusters, and Carnys with smaller..  Feral bees around here look a lot like new world Carniolan being more gray with some darker bees among them..  After a few generations of your own queens they are Mutts, but often if their colors and traits resemble one of the other races thats what I still call them...
39 Hives and growing.  Havent found the end of the comfort zone yet.