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Author Topic: US Economic Collaspe?  (Read 4589 times)
iddee
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2013, 05:58:10 PM »

Well said.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2013, 07:14:32 PM »

amen idee, "Well said OldMech!"

OldMech, I'm glad you mentioned the dollars stashed not being worth anything because I forgot to follow up and explain.

My "stash" is for Bank Holidays first. However if I see it going to pot I plan to dig up the stash, grab gas jugs fill them up at a store about 8 miles from here where folks don't know me. If possible, then use as much as possible for things like oil and other non perishables. I will be the first to admit, even that plan could be flawed. From what I heard most economies that crashed did so overnight. Went to work one day and everything was fine. The next day everybody got sent home. I think hyperinflation may follow the same suit. It all depends if it's a hard crash or a soft crash. (fast or slow).

Most self named preppers are drama queens. Not only have I been in those meetings I used to facilitate them. No more, stopped a year or so ago.

People used to tell me: "Man, I got guns and ammo!  I'm going to the woods and live off the land." I tell them, That's not gonna work. Number one, there will be thousands of people planning to do the same thing. Even if you do shoot something someone may kill you over it. A study of the Indians in the Southeast was done. Certain nations had certain territory. The estimated population of these tribes was given and compared to the territory. It averaged out something like ten square miles per person. Keep in mind, with the exemption of the Cherokee nation, most were nomadic. Once an area was stressed they moved on and let it rebuild. What did most Indians fight over? Land/territory boundaries.

Our money is backed by gold - in part. The other backing is something like GNP/trade/stock(?) but after that it's mainly a mindset. It's worth what it is because everybody "thinks" it is. China's currency is fully backed by gold. If not fully then in the high nineties percent wise.

I can't prove this but I remember reading about a lot of the extreme rich in this country buying large ranches in other countries and stocking them up, drilling wells and so on. Bernankie, Gates, and others.

I keep saying this, man I hope I'm wrong but it'll take a major economic shift to the positive to get me to start changing my mind. I am in the neighborhoods daily (except for the next 6 weeks) Tons and tons of people are home every day. A lot of them are there because they don't have jobs, others never had a job. Forget what the gov't says about how well the gov't is doing. I can only sum it up to say; "It's scary."
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iddee
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2013, 07:29:39 PM »

I'm not considered a preppie. I can and dehydrate my own food. I hunt. I can milk a cow or goat. I can cook on the river or in the woods. I have sufficient guns, ammo, and friends with same.

I'm not waiting for it to hit. I put away a two year supply of veggies and venison and replenish it each year. I fish, and if they don't bite, I go in and catch them with my hands. I do my own butchering. I don't take it to a processor. I have even been known to make a party beverage or two at times.

My father married my mother in 1930.He made sure us 6 kids were prepared to live as they did in the years following their marriage. There were them, their parents, brothers and sisters. 18 in all, living on the great wages of 2 dollars per day.

I think I can make it just a bit better than most city dwellers.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kathyp
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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2013, 07:51:16 PM »

Quote
I have even been known to make a party beverage or two at times.

yes you have!   evil

there was a book that came out a few years ago "One Second After".  it was not a literary masterpiece, but i think it was an excellent portrayal of what happens when TSHTF.  as much disaster work as i have done and as much as i have prepared, there were things in there i had not thought about.

i am constantly amazed at how unprepared people are even for the disasters that they know can happen in their own area.  if there is a big disaster, or collapse, a lot of people are going to die.  no way of getting around it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2013, 08:11:39 PM »

Just checking in to say I echo oldmech too.

One correction, not intended to derail this discussion, the Federal Reserve Note(our money) is no longer backed by gold at all. That ended officially ended in 1971 though Roosevelt started years before.

Perhaps another thread about economics/ monetary policy would be beneficial.
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OldMech
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« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2013, 08:33:51 PM »

Not having jobs  and living off the govt is another sore spot for me.. not because they DO it... but because they dont have jobs to begin with..      Small town America died because of two reasons.. they both intertwine, and in many ways relate to suburbs etc...
   Farmers used to farm 40 to 80 acres, they raised and supported their families on that land.. NOW, farmers own thousands of acres.. those acres came from a LOT of small farms being bought up.. so the population is nowhere near what it used to be... That being the case.. we would STILL have a theater, a lumber yard, a hardware store, a shoe store, a dry good store, a grocery store, a gran store, a car dealership ( We used to have three) An implement dealer (We used to have 5) Gas stations (We used to have seven) and SO MUCH more buisiness... "IF" those businesses could buy their product NEAR what the superstores could buy the same thing for...  as far as I am concerned, with todays ease of shipping, the home town stores shouldbe able to do so.. If they could, there would be hundreds of thousands of businesses that still thrived.. They fail, because they cannot buy, and sell for the price of the superstore.   those superstores BRAG, that they create jobs, but the fact is, that they destroy jobs..
   I am  not one to poopoo the american dream. Those superstores represent the american dream. They built up from nothing to dominate, and have become successful!!!   I love that part of it, but at the same time, i hate that they drive the mom and pop stores into the ground..
   I used to own a hardware store...  I sold a lot of bolts to farmers, among other things, but as time passed, they became harder and harder to get...  So one day I decided to call the source, the supplier of bolts.. (I am going to name this company...)  The company was Rockford.. I spoke to the sales rep, and told him I wanted to set up and account and begin ordering bolts from them. The man i was speaking to asked me how much business i did in bolts. I said 300 to 400 a month  just in bolts...
   He hung up on me..  no explination, nothing...  I called back and asked to speak to the manager, and told him what happened. He did not apologize.
   "Yeah, that kind of volume is a waste of our time. When you can do 3 to 4 thousand a month we can talk, until then were not interested in dealing with you."
   He hung up as well.. and so it was, that I could drive to a superstore, and buy bolts CHEAPER than I could order them.. Even though I was a licensed business..
   If you want to create jobs in this country, and rekindle the American dream. Mandate that any Licensed business can purchase for the same price no matter the size, and you will see a MASSIVE resurgence in small business and jobs all across the country. No matter if they are in super cities, or small towns.. There would no longer be the need to drive 40 miles to get to a super store, you could buy within a mile or two of where you live at the same price. In effect, with todays gas prices, it would be CHEAPER to buy closer to home...    I believe that the lack of jobs and unemployment has a direct relation to the trouble we are in today.
   Make this one concession, and the problems would slowly begin to diminish.. but, of course we know it wont happen, there is too much money in those super stores. The rest of us dont have the power to override their billions, and so the problem will just keep getting worse.
   Today, in our small town. We have one gas station that also sells bread and other conveniences. We have a tavern, and a restaurant. A barber, and a grain elevator owned by a super corp. EVERY other business is closed.
   i can remember the town square being a hustling place. EVERY available spot was filled with a business of some sort, EVERY business employed people to work for them.   Now... most of the people who live here drive in excess of  30 miles one way to get to their place of employment...   A waste of fuel that is not necessary, if the prices small businesses payed for product was closer to what the super stores paid.
   There is, and always will be the convenience factor of the super stores. EVERYTHING you want in one place. ONE stop shopping.. But, when you have to put 30 miles on your car to get to it at 5 dollars a gallon for gas... AND you have to go to those stores AFTER work or on the weekend when you have time off... yeah, i think you can see where I am pointing..
   Internet allows ordering from anywhere, and most things can be delivered overnight if necessary. I have some hope, that this will slowly begin to build momentum. it does not matter if you live in LA or middle of nowhere population 75.. you can SHIP from that location, and receive shipping at that location.. so the trend to get out of the big cities with high taxes and MASSIVELY overinflated property costs, into a rural environment where you can still buy land for 500 dollars an acre, with low taxes and VERY few restrictions may well bring a resurgence to suburbs and small towns.
   In Maine.. i built a house, a new house, and went through HELL dealing with the building codes, regulations and inspections.. I was SO frustrated ALL the time...    We moved back here to Iowa, because I had enough of the big city type lifestyle.. two hours to go three miles to work because of traffic. People who had no morals or ethics, and didnt CARE if you needed to change lanes, it wasnt THEIR problem.. and god forbid if you broke down..  Lock the doors and roll up the windows and pray help got there before someone robbed you on the side of the highway...  
   Here in Iowa... I ent to see the code enforcement officer, and told him i wanted to build a house.. "WHAT, do i need for permits etc?"
   He shrugged..  
 "You need to have your septic inspected before you cover it up.. other than that.. its YOUR house, build it how you want."

   I was so flabbergasted I didnt know what to say...
   I did build my house, My way, which exceeds most codes and specifications I dealt with in Maine. I bought a large piece of land, I built ponds with no permits. I Planted trees, I have animals, pets, Bees, and I do not need to get permission at a city counsel meeting to do it. If I break down on the side of the road, I KNOW, the next farmer to happen along will pull over, and give me a lift into town..

   I think it was Jeff Foxwothy who stated this;
   if you buy a big screen TV, and suddenly realize it wont fit in your car...  The guy with the truck beside you offers to deliver it to your house.. and a half hour later he pulls up and delivers it, and refuses to take any money..  You might live in Iowa..

   its the truth, and I have done similar things myself. Everyone waves, everyone will help you if you need it. i have been back here now for over 12 years, and it has been 12 years since ANYONE yelled at me from another car, or gave me the finger when I turned my turn signal on..      It is here, in small town USA, that people will survive, if this country has a catastrophe, because we will help each other. We will stand side by side and protect each other. With a single phone call, I can have a hundred people at my house, WITH guns if I need them, and they know I will show at their place if they need me.
   Survival here, isnt so much about preparing to survive alone, its about preparing to survive with your community.

   I dont like watching that die. As I said, population density has some to do with it, but lack of jobs has a greater impact. Even so, i think, if the poo hits the fan, you will find that out here in nowheresville, we will be the ones who reach out and try to help with food crops. Alcohol for fuel etc when there is none coming in from overseas anymore. At least, until those folks starving in the big cities realize where its coming from and try to TAKE it from us.. then your going to see what angry off farmers can accomplish.
   I believe we need to resurrect the backbone of this country, with JOBS, not government hand outs, so when the Govt does fail, and were needed again, we CAN!
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« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2013, 08:52:47 PM »

you kind of lost me with the first paragraph.  times change.  change or die.

farming is more efficient now. small farms arn't profitable except in niche markets.  kids don't want to work that hard.  they move on.  even so, we produce enough food to feed ourselves and many others. 

big box stores are also more efficient and profitable than many small stores, but many small stores find that they are not as much in competition as they thought they would be.  in fact, the big stores drive traffic into the area and business benefits.  again...change or.... i can buy a hammer for 10 bucks at the little hardware store, or 5 bucks at the box store...but, that other 5 bucks that i didn't spend on the hammer gets spent in the economy somewhere.

not all change is good, but on balance, if you think about what has happened in the last 100 years especially in science, medicine, and tech change can be pretty exciting.

and after all, i don't have to go thorough a nosy switchboard operator to have this conversation with you!

and...while i love farmers...you might want to remember just how many of them are attached to the government teat too.  it's not like all those folks you love so much are out there makin' it on their own.....

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2013, 01:37:59 AM »

Kathy.. my point wasnt about the farmers or that farming is more efficient now. I understand that all too well. GPS runs the equipment now, needing you only to turn around at the end of the row for it. Wont be long you will stand in your kitchen in your bathrobe, hit a button and watch your combine or planter head out to go to work without you. I am accepting of the fact that instead of farming 40 acres to raise a family.. farmers now farm 4000. With the equipment they have, they can.. AND they have to just to pay for that equipment.. have you priced a new top of the line Combine or tractor?

    I am not hoping to revert to an earlier era either, it was just my overblown and extended way to compare, to say that in my opinion there is a way to start getting back on track, and its simply to RE create jobs that were lost. The work force here IN TOWN was once in excess of 500 jobs, with a population of 800. Now we have less than 100 jobs in town with a population of just less than 500.
   I dont care what anyone says. A superstore that sells everything and employs 30 people locally cant replace 50 businesses employing 5 people each.
   Its not about the super stores succeeding, isnt that everyone's goal? It's about the overwhelming loss of local stores and the jobs associated with them.

   I have to disagree with the statement that small stores are not in competition as much as they thought they would be..  I can personally show you several dozen local businesses that died with the coming of the super stores.  I know of one lumber yard that had 5 stores in different small towns, they are now reduced to one in a town with a pop of 10000 and plan to close the doors this fall. Talk to the owner, and he will tell you exactly why.. He cannot compete. He cant get prices that allow him to stay in business.  thats 42 people from HIS stores out of work.

   Yes.. it is the American dream. It is sound business to run the competition out, it just turns out its bad for unemployment rates.

   I agree that change can be good, or bad. no argument there.

   i do have to ask what this came from?

   "and...while i love farmers...you might want to remember just how many of them are attached to the government teat too.  it's not like all those folks you love so much are out there makin' it on their own....."

 
   Nothing I said was meant to imply that all farmers worked twice as hard as anyone else and never accepted help from the govt..  I was implying that people here are NICE, friendly, helpful and moral.   In the city???  Yes, there are people like that, but there are MORE people who are self centered greedy immoral and downright nasty.  I made a lot of friends in places like SanDiego CA, Austin Texas, Portland Maine, Charlotte NC, Orlando FL. I still stay in touch with many of them after 30 years of being away from those places, but never in my life have I ever encountered such hostility, anger, frustration and complete lack of consideration from the general masses. So why go there to start a business, when there are better (nicer) places at cheaper prices that will work equally as well?
 
   Anyhow, this is off topic.. I was intending to point to the fact that one of the reasons were in the mess we are in is because there are so few jobs for so many people and one of the reasons I believe that has come to pass. Mandate closer pricing so the smaller businesses CAN stay in business, or have a HOPE of starting a business, and new jobs would be created..     
   I will agree that the govt already has their noses too far into such things, but it could also be done on a state, or even local level to insure continued employment..

   I still go to that lumber yard to buy my lumber and const needs. When they close the doors this fall, I will have no choice but to go to the super store. It will be the only place left within 30 miles to buy lumber. Three times as far away, and they are a PAIN to deal with. their employees know NOTHING about what they are selling, despite what the commercials tell you.
   We lose the knowledge, the helpfulness, the convenience of distance, and gain... a few bucks saved on the COST, but more money spent on fuel, and WAY more time to gather what you needed..   You dont have someone running out and getting your order ready like the local store, YOU go out the front, get in your truck, drive through the gates, and YOU load up what you paid for... unless you want to wait for the kid working out there to help the other fifteen people already waiting for him...

  change or die.

   I dont mind change usually. When I graduated High school they were TALKING about getting one of those newfangled apple computers... look at us now! We had TYPING when i was in school, now they have "Keyboard"..   When I wrecked my truck, or got a flat tire, i didnt have a cell phone to call for help. Change can be good, but dealing with the conversion of America to super stores will likely kill me, or at the very least see me sitting in jail for the few years I have left.  Tongue

   I'll try not to post any more books!!!   Sorry Sad
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GSF
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« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2013, 08:28:22 AM »

iddee

You probably didn't take it this way but I wanted to clarify. I wasn't making fun of anyone who prepped. I think it's very necessary. The point I was making was it seem to be more fadish than serious to some folks.

We have some things in common, My grandparents raised me. My grandmother's mother lived with us also. When the year turned 1900 she was 18 years old. We have goats, chickens, bees, I would say orchards but it more like a large edible lanscape. Apple, pears, figs, pomegranite, grapes, scuppernongs, blueberries, sugar cane, pecans, plums, plus a huge garden every year except this year. I had root knot nematodes get real bad last year. There's only two methods I could find for treatment. One was to plant mustard and turn it under. The decaying process is susposed to release harmful toxins to the nematodes. The other is to starve them out. You do this by not planting anything one year and keeping the soil turned over. 

Figs are awesome when dehydrated. What dehydrater do you use/prefer? Ours just bit the bullet. We pressure can or hot water bath everything out of the garden. I ate some apple butter that was over 11 years old. (I always heard you can eat can food 20 years later and it not hurt you) About the worst I could say about it was it wasn't fresh as something made the last couple years. Otherwise it was good and enjoyable.

gotta go do some work, be back this evening..,

Old Mech and others, I don't think any of you were off topic because I can see where it all ties in.
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iddee
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« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2013, 09:20:18 AM »

Didn't take it as bad. I was just saying living this way is cheaper, more healthy, and will have you better prepared if something does happen. So why not do it all the time.

My dryer is an excaliber 9 drawer.  You can find my venison jerky recipe, ""with honey"", here:

http://www.beekeepingforums.com/threads/1576-Cooking-with-Honey?highlight=jerky
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2013, 10:36:31 AM »

Is all this just a bunch of hype?
Mostly.  It’s the nonsense Fox sensationalizes to draw an audience so they can make $$$ selling ad space.  Sadly it seems to attract beeks like a night light attracts moths.   

The dollar is not going to collapse, we are not going to get hyperinflation, and we’re not going to run out of water, electricity, or food.  We’ve got more Natural Gas than anybody, more than enough to power energy efficient LED bulbs for hundreds of years and water pumps to boot.  The Great Lakes is the largest mass of fresh water on the planet.  How much water to you drink?  The only real energy problem we have right now is we need oil for transportation.  With Obama’s new efficiency laws in place, we won’t need OPEC in the future.  Let them trade in cow pies if they want.

So we’ve got an abundance of water, food, energy, natural resources, human capital, and fiscal capital.  And yet Fox and Crew got y’all thinking like chicken little. laugh

Hyperinflation is a joke.  The dollar has been BARELY inflating in recent years.  The experts (not beeks), are more fearful of deflation than inflation, or hyperinflation.  Housing prices are down, corn is down about 50% from last year, Gold is WAY down.  The dollar is BARELY inflating.

I used to live in Memphis.  Nobody worries about the Madrid fault unless they have nothing else to do!  You simply buy an earthquake rider on your insurance and go on with life.  I believe the current historical evidence shows the New Madrid fault slips at a fairly predictable rate every 400 to 500 years.  Don’t worry about it, you’ll be LONG gone before the next one!  All the bridges around Memphis have chains to hold the decks in place, more or less  Wink

That sounds like a rehash of a political speech that could have been done by a Mayor of Detroit trying to get reelected by the union employees and the regular ole uninformed voters.  " YEA YOU GO MR. MAYOR "  And hey it worked for over fifty years.
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« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2013, 11:47:50 AM »

OldMech, i understand the thing about the small stores closing up and the concerns about jobs.  i can only tell you what has happened in my town and in the one next to ours.

our little town got a fred meyer about 10 years ago.  if you don't know fred meyer, it walmartish, but usually a little smaller and more up market.  it has everything.
the small stores in town were having a fit, as were the other two grocery stores.  one was a safeway and the other a small independent. 

the freddys went in.  the small independent grocery closed as did one of the hardware stores in town.  however...other stores came in a took their place.  where the grocery store had been went a variety store.  where the hardware store had been is now a grocery outlet.  on the land next to freddys they built a theater and there are a number of small shops including a wirelss store, pizza place, and tanning salon.  smiley
the people who had worked at the old grocery store work at fred meyer and while the pay is not better, the benefits and retirement plan are. 

in the next tow over, walmart bought a piece of land on the edge of town.  the town had a fit.  the walmart went in.  that entire area is now developed with shops and restaurants and walmart brought 100's of jobs to the town...not including the new businesses.

it is true that there are places that will not be able to compete, but there are always places that will not be able to compete. 
you really want the government to get into price fixing??
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2013, 01:34:16 PM »

forgot to add this ...

last night i was reading some stuff and got to wondering if the federal government knows that collapse is inevitable and, in conjunction with the federal reserve, is just trying to hold it off until they are ready for it.  or, do they know that some disaster is coming and are preparing for it.

not to go off on an AJ rant, but if you put all of the things we do know, and all of the things we might know, together...that is, the buying of what seems to be excessive amounts of (hollow point) ammo, the buying of military type hardware/vehicles, the expansion of swat type teams in almost all government entities, etc., you might think that we had a country preparing for war....but against whom?

happy daze... grin

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2013, 03:25:22 PM »

kathyp

I think they do know it, as a matter of fact I'm sure they know it. A friend of mine works with the DOD in purchasing. About every week they have some kind of dum briefing about something. Guess what the title of one of the recent briefings was? "How to deal with the public during an economic collapse" Was that just random or was it planned?

He also told of a requirement to have some new purchasing software in place "prior" to the last election. This software coincided with the Defense Authorization Act, specifically marshal law. It somewhat laid out the chain of command under marshal law. Pres - top, VP/Sec State - same level, then under them fell the Dept of Homeland Security. I don't remember exactly the rest but the UN was also identified as being equal with either DHS or the VP. (I still haven't figured out how they are gonna buy anything)

If anyone isn't familiar with the Defense Authorization Act (Ex Order #?) then google it. Under this once marshal law is declared we are no longer a free people as with any marshal law.

I'm repeating myself; go to you tube, search katrina/gun confiscation/ make sure it is the one that the National Rifle Association put on there. Several people were randomly stopped and at some point in the causal conversation they were asked if they had any weapons on them, if they said yes they were seized. Some folks said when they asked for a receipt they were given a smart *** answer. The folks on one of the film was an elderly woman, a female minister, and a couple of good ol boys. It (D.A.act) also allows the gov't to seize your food, gas, cars, water, kick you out of your house, endevered servitude (force work/slavery), detain you, ect.

Always ask why. It makes me very unconfortable when I lay out all the little pieces of this puzzle. I really don't know if anything will happen. I got a sick feeling about 3 years ago that something bad was going to happen. I had no pieces of any puzzle back then but I took it serious. I still don't know if it was the good Lord trying to get me going in the right direction or if I had a chemical imbalance Smiley I'm still moving in that direction. Not as fast as before because I'm in a pretty good position if anything happens. I stopped investing in the stock market about a year or so ago and started stocking up faster.

If we're right this is going to be horrible. We have ran sceniros through our mind and tried to counter them with other plans. A lot of folks are putting up bullets but not food. ...can't figure that one out.
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« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2013, 03:02:25 AM »

I don’t mean any disrespect to my fellow beeks, but this is the same utter nonsense that people got all excited about before Y2K.  Remember that?  Some of my Y2K friends bought years and years worth of toilet paper before that eminent collapse of society.  I just laughed at that nonsense too.

As for iddees coffee chart:



Your own chart supports what I was saying about inflation; it’s only in the low single digits.  The retail price of 'average' coffee (lower three lines) has been almost flat for 20 years.  That my friend is not “hyperinflation”.  

OK, so your chart does have a much steeper line for “EXCELLENT” coffee.  I suppose if you can’t start your day without some pricy celebrity backed gourmet coffee, then indeed you are suffering from a little more inflation than the rest of us. Sad  You might need to cut back on other luxury items like your Air Jordan sneakers.  laugh
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2013, 08:25:19 AM »

Say all you want about the chart.  My 5¢ bottomless cup of coffee has still changed to  $1.50 single cup and that's not a fancy cup, that's at the cafeteria here at work.  A coke was also 5¢ as were all the candy bars.  There was tons of penny candy.  Our keyboards no longer even have the symbol for ¢.  I still come up with 3000% inflation just on that cup of ORDINARY coffee ignoring that I used to drink four or five for that 5¢ and I only get one for that $1.50.    How is 3000% "low single digits"?  Don't even get started on houses or land... I bought my first house for $5,500 and before that I was paying $40 a month rent (bills paid).  I bought two more houses over the years for less than $25,000 (one was $17K and the other $23K).  I'm sure glad we don't have significant inflation... thanks for telling me.  I feel much better now.

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Michael Bush
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« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2013, 11:42:13 AM »

what a lot of folks don't know about y2k is that a lot of geeky computer nerds, like my brothers, worked very long hours to make sure that things (like the bank) didn't crash.  in the end, my brother put in food and said IDK what's going to happen.....

when i go to disasters and people tell me "we didn't prepare because last time it didn't happen", sometimes i just want to throw up my hands an go home. you live on the gulf coast.  at some point a  hurricane is going to hit you. a little preparation...maybe?

look at egypt.  no war started this.  they have fallen apart from the inside.  these are educated people.  they have good infrastructure.  they have wealth.  they have a flippin' constitution.
if it can happen to them, what makes you think it can't happen to us?

and it's in the plan.
http://www.thenation.com/article/weight-poor-strategy-end-poverty#axzz2c93lNNSI
all of this is worth reading, but it's gets pretty interesting 1/2 way down.

and it's being implemented.  go to the bottom of this and get the actual SNAP docs.
http://www.budget.senate.gov/republican/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=a5f59d58-a135-458d-89bd-e348a99cc7ea
Here is the Spanish push.
http://www.politisite.com/2013/08/13/obama-used-spanish-soap-opera-to-push-food-stamps/

you think Cloward and Piven are not relevant anymore?  No one would follow that old stuff?  the strategy is still taught in university, but more chilling was francis piven showing up at the occupy stuff and being enthusiastically greeted and speaking to the crowds.  they knew exactly who she was.
BTW richard cloward was teaching at colombia when obama was a student.
destruction from within by using the welfare system.  hmmm





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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2013, 01:35:12 AM »

hehe, NO.. I dont want govt to get into Price management.. A simple mandate that a licensed legal small business can buy 200 LB's of bolts for the same cost those super stores buy 2000 lb's of bolts for... but I do realize that also opens another can of worms so will desist Tongue

   Several years worth of toilet paper?  Around here we can go back to using corn cobs pretty easy Tongue   

   The fact you overlook Blue.. is that its better to have something you need, than to need something you dont have.   I am not a prepper as such.. I have seed, animals, A pond a few steps from my house where I can haul water from to flush toilets etc. I have a generator that will run my house. I know how to make alcohol, and I know how to make my generator run on it instead of Gasoline. I dont have these things because I am prepping, i have them because I always have had them, and use them.
  I havent trapped in almost fifteen years, but my traps are hanging in the shed and could be used on short notice. Eating a coon or Muskrat isnt something I like to consider, but I can tell you that it would sure beat the heck out of starving. People used to eat pidgeons and blackbirds, possum and skunk, and we have a LOT of those critters around here. I have two horses and a Wagon they can pull/Have pulled. They have the pasture they need to survive year round.  I feel that I am in a lot better spot than someone in a city renting a flat without even a yard to grow a tomato in.
   If nothing happens, no collapse.. what have I lost??  In fact... what would I change?   Nothing, because this IS how I live.
   How valuable will my grapes be? My Honey? My Eggs? My Chickens? My Vegies and canned goods?   The value wont be in money, it will be in barter and trade. If I never need to USE those things to trade with, then I CAN sell them, or eat them, so what does it hurt? Why would you think it silly to be ready? OK.. years of toilet paper may have been a bit silly, I will give you that..

   In the last year.. My accountant TOLD me to get my money invested in precious metals, and keep it out of the bank. Our Doctor told my WIFE the same thing!
   I have an uncle thats a multi millionaire, and he has his panties all up in a bunch about whats going on.. He has always been one of the most solid and intelligent people I knew, and he is verging on panic..  He has already bought a farm outside of the town he lives in.  WAY too many people that stay "UP" on current affairs are worried and scared. The good lord knows I am not one who stays up on whats happening beyond this small town.. but when people I have KNOWN to laugh at other people panicking start to panic, I pay a bit of attention.
   By all means, poo poo the preppers and say it wont happen. Continue on about your life, and when this all blows over feel free to tell me you told me so, and I will acknowledge your superior intellect.  While I go right on living happily, and being ready for the next big worry while riding my horse to check fences instead of the four wheeler in the garage.. JUST, because I like to.
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« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2013, 02:13:01 AM »

If people want to spend their time “preparing” for disasters that’s fine with me.  We all have a choice of how to spend our time.  As you say, it’s probably not a total waste preparing if you get some enjoyment out of it.  Everybody has different hobbies they get enjoyment from.

My only real point in this thread is beeks tend to react to emotion whereas I base my opinions on DATA.  The DATA says a lot of the things beeks are paranoid about are simply not TRUE.  This nonsense about hyperinflation is a perfect case in point.  Hyperinflation simple DOES NOT EXIST and yet beeks will argue with me for pages and pages on this subject.  It is really pretty silly as this is basic economic FACT. 

I saw 168 homes listed for under $40K in Omaha NE.  If a beek bought a house for $25K in the 1960s and houses are now $40K or less, that simply is not hyperinflation.  In fact that is a pretty poor return on capital!

Where do beeks draw the line when it comes to preparing for the improbable?  Are you all preparing for a bird flu too?  How about an asteroid hit?  A gamma burst from space?  A super nova?  How about the MUCH more probable problems?  Are you checking your cholesterol everyday?  Blood pressure?  Weight?   BMI?  What you are doing to prevent cardiovascular disease?     
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« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2013, 06:38:19 AM »

Studies have shown that after three days without food a person becomes more primal than civil. Meaning, you got it I take it.

Old Mech - OK.. years of toilet paper may have been a bit silly, I will give you that..
(please don't let my wife hear you say that.. Lips Sealed)
We too have invested in some silver bars/rounds - can't do the gold thing. I can't make alcohol  to run stuff so to buy some time I bought a propane conversion kit for my generator. We hit yards sales and usually buy a propane bottle for $5 - be aware the older types can't be swapped for new bottles. They have to be refilled. We plan to get some used bikes with baskets. This lifestyle can be pricey for some folks. There is a you tube video, the guy goes by engineer(69?). He has a device he made to capture the gas release from burning wood. He uses that to power his truck. I believe he shows how to build it as well.

Bluebee, you have some good points. I am very open to differing opinions about my belief in this matter. I would love to see something that could change my mind. Data can and is manipulated. I don't see a lot of the TEOTWAWKI events you mentioned panning out. Like others, I want to be prepared and the most likely event I see is a collapse. However, all things considered if medical care and hygiene is taken out of the picture there will be a resurgence of simple diseases.
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"Life is hard, It's even harder when you're stupid."

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