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Author Topic: Who do you trust for news?  (Read 2548 times)
Keith13
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« on: August 10, 2013, 10:28:45 PM »

I just recently stopped trusting my local news station for news. I long ago quit the MSM. I remember back in the 90's a reporter for the local 6 o'clock news reporting on her husband a fellow newscaster that had been caught with a prostitue in diapers being spanked it was the lead story. She lead with that story with tears in her eyes. Just recently the local news is skipping major stories here in Baton Rouge because of the connection to the on air people as well as local politicians. It seems I no longer trust the local rag or newscast. I still read Fox News online and like to think they are reporting the truth. Whomdomyou trust for unbiased news? I thought the bbc was good but recentlytheytoo have been caught manipulating the news.

Keith
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2013, 11:33:17 PM »

i'm not sure i trust any one source.  i get some from fox, but from their hard news, not opinion stuff.  there are a number of online sites that i cruse every day.  i read stuff from source that i don't trust but that's for research and entertainment. 

i would not trust any one source.  even the best of them can get things wrong.  most of the worst of them have one or two good reporters that you can rely on to at least try to get news to you.  the exception would be MSNBC which is not news, not entertainment, but is a propaganda organization for the admin.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2013, 12:22:52 AM »

    Keith13. The fact you ask the question says you will be OK. Your life experience tells you to be cautious. Just think of the baboons who believe everything they hear and read.  

    I too would say the hard news on fox is OK. MSNBC is total crap. Most locale news around the country are run by liberals. If something sounds a little fishy, I research several sources. Its tough because of the divide and partisanship.

    I will add. Some conservative views on the internet, blogs and such, like to stretch the truth or just make things up. This concerns me greatly. These sites only serve to hurt the conservative message.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 12:36:18 AM by Fox Creek » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2013, 07:42:37 AM »

Sadly, a lot of the news is not what is reported,but what is omitted. I like to pass across Breitbart and Drudge specifically to hit some of the omitted stories and you can search farther from their.
 One story that comes to mind recently that the MSM media and self proclaimed civil rights activists failed to even acknowledge:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/09/Critics-Blast-Sharpton-Jackson-Over-Silence-on-Brutal-FL-Bus-Beating
Be suspicious of everything, especially news "makers" over true investigative reporters.
 
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2013, 09:47:47 AM »

http://www.cnsnews.com/

here's another one that is more conservative and tends to hit the missed stories. 

i think that one of the reasons that Fox News has becomes so popular is not that there are so many conservatives in the country.  there are not and Fox is not as conservative as the MSM and admin would like you to believe...but that they tend to cover the entire story and not just the PC part of a story.  when people go there they are kind of shocked to find out what they have not been told.

buzzbee is right.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2013, 04:17:34 PM »

"News" media of all forms is tainted IMHO. It all has some policy lean to it.
The fact that the public is becoming more aware is great news. Let's see them report that story lol. Always check a story across several sources for verifications. Because they all stretch to make an issue suit their needs. The truth generally lies between say what FOX & MSNBC report.
I haven't found any one source that is 100% reliable.....
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2013, 07:22:02 PM »

    " The truth lies between fox and MSNBC "

    MSNBC doctored a copy of the dispatch tape in the Zimmerman case. Their version was inflammatory and designed to create racial division. MSNBC did this to fit the narrative, " White Americans are racist ".  MSNBC did this knowing their reporting could cause race riots. Property would be damaged, innocents could be injured or murdered. This is unforgivable. If you even turn to MSNBC for any reason, one would have to wonder what is in your mind.

    You may want to do a little research regarding the misery Al Sharpton , J. Jackson and their ilk have perpetrated on the American public. These race hucksters have caused the ruin and even death of innocents. Start with Tawana Brawley and Crown Heights.

    Make no mistake, MSNBC knew exactly what they were doing.
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hjon71
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2013, 01:20:19 AM »

Let me be clear. Distorting the truth to suit an agenda for any reason makes ANY media outlet unfit to be trusted. That is my only point. Both FOX & MSNBC have engaged in these practices. Therefore both are untrustworthy and one would be well advised to either read both and find the truth between them or look elsewhere for confirmation before believing anything they release.

If you want to debate the finer points of race baiting perhaps another thread would be in order. I prefer to address the topic specified in the OP.
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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2013, 04:05:24 AM »

Fox News  lau lau lau
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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2013, 09:18:39 AM »

I have live in Europe now for 15 years and from time to time I still check the American (basically because they are in English) news sites. 

The info you are given in the USA believe it or not isn't the same as the info that the rest of the worlds gets.    When it comes to world news you guys get very limited info.  Even the news of whats going on in the USA we get more then I see on the American news sites.   I even compared this with my father once.   He was surprised to here what the Danish and even the UK sites where reporting.

Linda
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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2013, 10:47:12 AM »

When my kid would say, "Dad, I didn't break your lamp", all I heard was "The lamp is broken".
That's the way you have to read the news from all the sources. None of them are going to tell you the truth, but some tidbits of truth are in all of them. You just have to pick out the tidbits from each and wonder about the rest.
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« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2013, 12:00:55 PM »

Quote
He was surprised to here what the Danish and even the UK sites where reporting.

it is true that different places concentrate on different news.  when i go to europe, i hear more euro-centric news, but what i hear about US news is often pretty distorted.  i'm sure it works the other way around too. 

to be honest, i think in a country this big with this many people, there is a considerable amount of US news that is more important to US people.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2013, 12:02:30 PM »

i consider any news i hear or read a starting point.  if i want to know more, or check accuracy, i'll spend time doing that.  i don't buy anything that i hear or read, but i also don't have time to research every single story. 

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2013, 12:34:44 PM »

Let me be clear. Distorting the truth to suit an agenda for any reason makes ANY media outlet unfit to be trusted. That is my only point. Both FOX & MSNBC have engaged in these practices. Therefore both are untrustworthy and one would be well advised to either read both and find the truth between them or look elsewhere for confirmation before believing anything they release.

If you want to debate the finer points of race baiting perhaps another thread would be in order. I prefer to address the topic specified in the OP.

    OK, you missed my point.  " News outlets spewing misinformation can be dangerous. "     Is this clear enough?

    BY the way. I do watch some Fox news. Can you point to an instance where Fox doctored a tape to insight violence??  If Fox did this, I would like to know.
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hjon71
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2013, 02:27:56 PM »

" News outlets spewing misinformation can be dangerous. "     Is this clear enough?

Crystal clear. Couldn't agree more.

   
Quote
BY the way. I do watch some Fox news. Can you point to an instance where Fox doctored a tape to insight violence??  If Fox did this, I would like to know.

Doctoring audio and video isn't new to FOX or MSNBC. That, to me, is dangerous. If violence is where some draw their moral line in the sand, so be it. I draw mine at spewing misinformation.



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hjon71
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2013, 02:33:33 PM »

The info you are given in the USA believe it or not isn't the same as the info that the rest of the worlds gets.    When it comes to world news you guys get very limited info.  Even the news of whats going on in the USA we get more then I see on the American news sites.   I even compared this with my father once.   He was surprised to here what the Danish and even the UK sites where reporting.

Linda

Amen sister. Propaganda is alive and well right here is the good ol' USofA.
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2013, 02:53:35 PM »

" News outlets spewing misinformation can be dangerous. "     Is this clear enough?

Crystal clear. Couldn't agree more.

   
Quote
BY the way. I do watch some Fox news. Can you point to an instance where Fox doctored a tape to insight violence??  If Fox did this, I would like to know.

Doctoring audio and video isn't new to FOX or MSNBC. That, to me, is dangerous. If violence is where some draw their moral line in the sand, so be it. I draw mine at spewing misinformation.




   
   

    Can you point out where or when Fox doctored a news story, dangerous or not ? If not, you should be able to see a clear difference between Fox News and MSNBC. For some, a "right leaning news story" would be much different than say, "doctoring a tape".
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kathyp
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« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2013, 03:00:46 PM »

yes, we have propaganda.  it is usually directed at swaying elections and opinion as far left as possible.  

the fact that we don't  have a lot of european news is not sinister, it's logical.  we have a big country.  there is lots of news.  there's not enough time to cover everything.  now...if you want more world news you can watch one of the 24/7 channels, bbc, etc.  

go to Europe and watch the news and you don't get a lot of US news other than things that will impact europe, or things that they want to make fun of.  as an example, you'll get a lot of coverage of any gun violence as the "reporters" tsk, tsk, the violent americans.  most of the time the have the story and the back story wrong, but they meet the agenda.
many of the European news organizations, especially on the TV, are getting some kind of government subsidy.  they are not independant as we know it.

everyone has their own agenda.  knowing the agenda is part of making good consumer decisions.

The zimmerman tape editing was a good example.  NBC was not the only one to do it.  as i was writing something, i wanted to hear or read the entire 911 call.  i had to do some searching to find a site that had an unedited version.  listening to the unedited 911 call gave a different perspective on the whole thing and made the trial outcome much easier to understand....which, i'm sure, is why it was harder to find the unedited version.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2013, 04:51:50 PM »

I cannot imagine how I can contribute more to this thread. If there is some point found contentious it may be due to party favoritism.

   
Quote
Can you point out where or when Fox doctored a news story, dangerous or not ? If not, you should be able to see a clear difference between Fox News and MSNBC. For some, a "right leaning news story" would be much different than say, "doctoring a tape".
If a person can't find what fox creek seeks they simply aren't looking and I do not fetch.

Kathy, I had no problem finding the unedited call.
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« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2013, 05:08:26 PM »

I cannot imagine how I can contribute more to this thread. If there is some point found contentious it may be due to party favoritism.

   
Quote
Can you point out where or when Fox doctored a news story, dangerous or not ? If not, you should be able to see a clear difference between Fox News and MSNBC. For some, a "right leaning news story" would be much different than say, "doctoring a tape".
If a person can't find what fox creek seeks they simply aren't looking and I do not fetch.

Kathy, I had no problem finding the unedited call.

    YOU, claimed Fox News and MSNBC were of the same ilk. (redundant)?  Should you not be challenged? Should you not at least produce some proof ? You accuse Fox News of doctoring the news, yet refuse to back the statement with facts. Kind of sounds like those this thread is about.
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« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2013, 05:09:25 PM »

    Keith13, Do you see what you started !
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« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2013, 06:08:43 PM »

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Kathy, I had no problem finding the unedited call.

i'll take your word for it.  maybe there are more copies of it out there now than there were.  i had to go through several pages of those who claimed to be posting the call, only to find that most were edited. 
Quote
I cannot imagine how I can contribute more to this thread

not if you can't answer the question asked  Wink



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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2013, 06:39:55 PM »

Struck a nerve, now someone's mad.
I didn't  sidetrack this thread. The OP is about who do you trust. I have answered. I didn't need someone to fetch the unedited call. I will repeat if someone can't find what is plentiful that is on them. I have nothing to prove.
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« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2013, 06:47:30 PM »

usually people who say "i  have nothing to prove" can't.  that's ok.  i just have this thing about people making statements and offering something to back it up.  "I do not fetch"  sounds more like  "oops, got called on that and I don't have a clue!".

you said:
Quote
Doctoring audio and video isn't new to FOX or MSNBC.

he asked:
Quote
Can you point out where or when Fox doctored a news story, dangerous or not

it seemed like a fair question, but hey.....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2013, 09:33:21 PM »

usually people who say "i  have nothing to prove" can't.  that's ok.  i just have this thing about people making statements and offering something to back it up.
Quote

If the information was obscure or difficult to obtain I would agree and provide it. But it's not. I only regret we can't stop derailing a perfectly good thread ....


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« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2013, 10:17:55 PM »

it must be obscure.  you are the only one with info on fox doctoring tapes.  it's ok if you don't want to share.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2013, 02:33:16 PM »

With the Al Jazeera America station coming on air, I thought maybe I could say, on topic, that on political news I trust BBC RT or Al Jazeera before others. And that's pretty sad I think, that it takes someone "outside" to look in and tell us what is really happening.
 But I'm cynical so even these outlets should be cross checked.
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« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2013, 02:43:03 PM »

Anytime there has been news of anything I had personal experience with, what I see reported has been wrong.  I can only assume it's always wrong.  Fox exaggerates to the right.  The rest exaggerate to the left.  NPR reports things that everyone else ignores but again leans to the left.  Still I like that I hear about things being otherwise ignored.  European news is the same.  Strong left leaning, but items otherwise ignored in the US media.  I agree you also have to read between the lines.  There is a HUGE difference between "they had materials that could be used to make a bomb" and "they had an assembled pipe bomb".  Everyone has "materials that could be used to make a bomb" in their garage.  It's the bag of fertilizer you have for the garden and the can of gasoline for your mower.  It's any number of other volatile substances like paint thinner etc.  Hasn't anyone ever watched McGyver?  So you do have to read between the lines...  I find it interesting how often the mainstream media implies guilt because a gun was found in someone's home, despite that being a constitutionally guaranteed right...

 
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« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2013, 06:32:33 PM »

I trust people with "new media" cameras who post unedited footage of what really happened - preferably in a comparison format against 'what they said happened'. I lean pretty right myself, but I dropped the (R) some time ago; I only care about the unabridged truth so I can reach my own conclusions. (this includes 911 call tapes).
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« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2013, 09:17:44 PM »

Quote
that on political news I trust BBC RT or Al Jazeera before others.

i read bbc all the time and spend a fair amount of time on AJ both reading and engaging.  bbc is consistently left.  doesn't matter if they are reporting on our news or theirs.  it's a complaint of the brits also as it is funded by a TV tax...thus avoiding the claim that it's government funded   shocked

AJ is pretty far out there on most stories that have anything to do with the west.  they have a high error rate on those stories, but some of it can be chalked up to lack of understanding of certain cultural and legal things.  some of it is sloppy and some of it is definitely agenda driven  BUT when it comes to the forums or comments sections, i have had some outstanding conversations.  they do not censor the conversation and i can't get that on our own comments sections.  CNN, Huff, and some of the other left leaning sites are really bad about deleting comments from conservative posters. 

there is no source that should be taken at face value.  all can make mistakes and some flat out lie. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2013, 04:05:09 PM »

Lots of charges against Fox News.....but no one can come up with any proof....funny it's not hard to find it on some of the other media.

I do check some of the others...just to see what the lefties arnt being told.
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« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2013, 05:55:43 PM »

Carol you might go look at the post I began here:
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,42349.0.html


There are plenty of examples if you are willing to look.
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« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2013, 07:35:51 PM »

which we pretty much took apart  Wink
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2013, 09:07:04 PM »

And I disagree.
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« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2013, 10:31:55 PM »

which we pretty much took apart  Wink

Agreed!  Smiley

And I disagree.

hjon,
Not trying to be difficult or stir up trouble, but the fact that you disagree doesn't surprise me in the least, or probably anyone else for that matter.  And honestly, I have no desire to expend time and energy to try and change your mind, which I have no doubt I couldn't do, even if I put forth the effort.

But I am truly curious about one common theme...While I hate painting with a broad brush and putting labels on people, Let's be honest, we all do it, because simply put, labels fit.

Anyone who spends any amount of time on this forum, especially in the coffee house, can get a pretty quick read on each members political views.

Now for what I'm confused on...I'm fairly conservative, freely admit it, even embrace it.  I think I can comfortably say that most like minded folks on the forum feel the same way about this.  What I don't fully understand, folks like You and Blue, who I think would be categorized by most as leaning significantly left, at a minimum, always shun the left and liberal label and claim to be MODERATES.  huh

To steal a line from Monday Night Football C'Mon Man!    I just don't get it, why is that?  Why not just embrace it?

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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
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« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2013, 01:06:27 AM »

I think we’ve covered this many times Moots.  The extremes (right and left) base their opinions on emotion.  We’ve seen this over and over in posts about economics, science, regulations, coal, incandescent light bulbs, etc.  Those of us in the middle (the moderates) base our decisions on DATA.  We are objective and rational and don’t need a puppet master to tell us what to believe.   Just sayin  Wink
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hjon71
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« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2013, 04:35:07 AM »

Quote
Not trying to be difficult or stir up trouble, but the fact that you disagree doesn't surprise me in the least, or probably anyone else for that matter.  And honestly, I have no desire to expend time and energy to try and change your mind, which I have no doubt I couldn't do, even if I put forth the effort.

But I am truly curious about one common theme...While I hate painting with a broad brush and putting labels on people, Let's be honest, we all do it, because simply put, labels fit.

Anyone who spends any amount of time on this forum, especially in the coffee house, can get a pretty quick read on each members political views.

Now for what I'm confused on...I'm fairly conservative, freely admit it, even embrace it.  I think I can comfortably say that most like minded folks on the forum feel the same way about this.  What I don't fully understand, folks like You and Blue, who I think would be categorized by most as leaning significantly left, at a minimum, always shun the left and liberal label and claim to be MODERATES.  huh

To steal a line from Monday Night Football C'Mon Man!    I just don't get it, why is that?  Why not just embrace it?




Moots If you replaced the word FOX news with any other MSM outlet my responses would have been the same. Because I dare attack the perception of a Right leaning agency it upsets those who believe the Fair and Balanced misnomer FOX places on themselves. It may appear to some I always take up a Left position(untrue) but it only appears that way because the Right posts the most crap propaganda. Here, at least anyway. And I will continue to say, when I encounter it, what is wrong with it. I will do the same if it were from the Left.

The links I provided were admittedly quickly searched/scanned for evidence of manipulation. If anyone can honestly say there is no manipulation to further an agenda(in this case the Right) I can't convince them regardless of the evidence. Ask BlueBee after the School Lunch post if he believes I'm Left leaning. Or any Post about gun control Or governments over reaching power Or God Lord this could take awhile....

I have said it before and apparently I will need to repeat it a few times. I see very little difference between Left/Right politicians. Forget what they say, look at what they do.

Here's a tasty little piece of propaganda for you courtesy of FOX news:
Bush is in office NSA=GOOD
Obama in office NSA=BAD

 
Hannity Then and Now on NSA Surveillance


But the source...
But it's Hannity...
But it's opinion....

All on FOX. I can find just as much of any other MSM "news" outlet, YES I lump them all together.
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Moots
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« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2013, 09:09:37 AM »

I think we’ve covered this many times Moots.  The extremes (right and left) base their opinions on emotion.  We’ve seen this over and over in posts about economics, science, regulations, coal, incandescent light bulbs, etc.  Those of us in the middle (the moderates) base our decisions on DATA.  We are objective and rational and don’t need a puppet master to tell us what to believe.   Just sayin  Wink

Blue,
Walt Disney should have had your imagination!  grin lau

And No....I don't think we've ever covered it.  But I've seen you in countless post criticize and belittle "Conservatives" as a group. If you're truly a moderate and are so "objective and rational", seems like there would be some...hell!...Maybe just one instance where you took issue with and were equally outraged with Liberals.  huh

Hey, Maybe I missed it!  If you could post a link or two where you've done this, it would be appreciated!  Smiley

On a side note....about 4 months ago you were on one of your rants about how BO was such a great President and what a great job he was doing.  As often is the case, your one attempt to offer "something" to support your stance was  the "look at the Market" response.

I asked one simple, straight forward, fair question... What "SPECIFICALLY" has BO done to create or aid the current market?

Seems like for such an objective and rational, data based, free thinking, moderate such as yourself, this would have been pretty easy. But instead you offered this dodge...

I'm too tired tonight, but I suppose I can TRY next time I log on.  Get your thinking cap ready  Wink  

Well I sent a few followups in the days after that....but not a whisper...NOTHING BUT CRICKETS!

But hey, it's been nearly 4 months now...So if you've caught up on your rest, and aren't too tired  Wink....I would REALLY love to hear an objective and rational answer to that question.
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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan
Michael Bush
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« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2013, 10:02:47 AM »

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed!
If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain
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Michael Bush
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My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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hjon71
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« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2013, 10:52:16 AM »

Mark Twain is often quoted because of his realistic insights. Perfect quote for this thread. Well done Mr. Bush
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