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Author Topic: Need advice, strange new queen failing hive.  (Read 416 times)
NotactJack
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« on: August 09, 2013, 09:58:24 PM »

Ok I had a cut out of bees back in May. I put a commercial Italian New queen (marked with a pink dot, huge, reddish orange) I checked on this hive 3 weeks ago. I had capped brood, eggs, pollen and honey stores and I saw the queen. She was laying.  It did have an ant problem but I corrected it. The hive was about 2-3 frames of brood in a NUC w/deep frames. I inspected today and numbers are reduced to about 1 frame of bees. There were eggs about 1 frame of eggs it had a lot of eggs in the center but then on closer inspection I saw several cells with multiple eggs. I though oh no I have a laying worker. But I checked the last frame and a queen was trying to walk on my finger. She was much darker and a little smaller. Definitely not the original queen. I guess my big worry is that an Africanized Queen came in and took over (I'm right in the middle of AHB territory). I didn't notice any queen cells. So I don't think the queen was superseded.  Right now my intended plan is to requeen with known genetic stock.
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10framer
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2013, 11:52:14 PM »

i'm pretty sure that if africanized bees were in the hive you would have known when you got within 10 or 15 feet of it.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2013, 12:21:48 AM »

With having multiple eggs in the cells, hopefully they were in the bottom, this indicates that you have a new queen that would have been raised by your bees.
The problem is that she had to go out and mate with the local drones. If you have Africanized bees in the area, the odds are very high that she mated with several of them. Africanized bees produce more drones than European bees and saturate the area.
The off spring take on the drones genetics for aggressiveness. The bees in your hive are probably from your previous queen. That is why they are gentile. The eggs in the hive will bee the ones that could be a problem.
I would re queen now and replace that frame of eggs with a frame from another hive if you have it and freeze that frame.
Where are you located? If you update your location, we can proved better answers base on where you are.
Jim
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NotactJack
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2013, 01:07:54 AM »

Laredo, Texas...I think requeening is the way to go. I have two other hives in my yard of gentle Italians but they are strong hives and very little drones. I've done cut outs of mild feral bees but I've had nasty ones too. I had one that attacked every one within two blocks.  I just have no way of knowing what type of bees this new queen will lay. I think I should let the new queen lay a little bit for now at least so the hive won't drop any more in numbers. I also put a frame of capped brood from a strong hive to help supplement.
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2013, 01:56:27 AM »

put your location in your profile and it will help a lot.  your hive requeened for a reason. sounds like they may have swarmed.  with that few bees and if they are not aggressive, i would not requeen.  you have no room for error with those numbers.  let them build up and then if you see a problem, requeen. 
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sc-bee
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2013, 08:14:57 AM »

I think you answered your own question. Actually I see no question, "Right now my intended plan is to requeen with known genetic stock."

 You know or should know the tolerance to beekeepers in your area and possible decisions made in reference to AHB. You know the requirements or recommendations for beekeepers in your area, if any.You know your personal tolerance, location of your hives in reference to other inhabitants etc. Based on what you know is right for you, and based on your experience and the experience of other beekeepers in your area with local mated queens, make the responsible decision.

I have no idea what that decision should be because I am sitting slap across on the other side of the US in what is currently a non AHB area, but threatened to soon become one due to my proximity to Florida.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 08:30:50 AM by sc-bee » Logged

John 3:16
JWChesnut
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2013, 11:17:45 AM »

Laredo, Texas has AHB.  You should plan on requeening.  Dark bees may represent German black genotype, which persists at about 25% level in thoroughly Africanized areas.  See fig 2H and 2I in: http://jghoneybee.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Thrice-Out-of-Africa-Ancient-and-recent-expansions-of-honey-bee.pdf

In my experience, the AHB don't get really aggressive until the hives build up, so let them fill the nuc, and then requeen, (make sure that late in the season you can get a bred queen, which might be pretty difficult). Defensiveness fluctuates just like in european bloodlines, when the hive is prepping for a swarm, they are very edgy.

Don't go  beyond one deep, or you get a management problem (including early swarms and drones that will affect your other hives genetics). Don't let the drones persist into the spring swarm season or you will add to the AHB issue in the area and your other hives.

Alternatively, you can let them build out, kill the (assumed) AHB queen and then combine to just add resources to your strong hive.
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sc-bee
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2013, 11:30:04 AM »

 goodpost  JW
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John 3:16
NotactJack
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2013, 12:49:56 PM »

I guess I need someone to confirm that my decision to requeen was sound and not a waste.
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