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Author Topic: Hive ck after swarm on July 26th and 29th  (Read 728 times)
Carol
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« on: August 09, 2013, 11:17:10 AM »

It's been 2 wks since the first swarm. Checked the hive today....no eggs, larva, or brood.  Did see a fair amount of bees. Lots of Drones, and some bees cleaning cells. Most of the brood frames were empty but some did have nectar or pollen in them. Saw at least 5 empty Queen cells...but could not spot a Queen.  Since there is no more brood to emerge...should I wait another week to see if a Virgin Queen is in the hive or order a new Queen.

I've read a Queenless hive can be kind of testy....no stings today....lots of buzzing but didn't find any to be very agressive. I kept the smoker handy and when a few started buzzing my veil I just gave myself a puff of smoke.

My husband took lots of photos of the frames but when zoomed in they are too blurry to see into the cells.
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iddee
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2013, 11:56:51 AM »

I would give it another week. The first swarm was likely around the 14th day of the queen cycle. I would give it to day 35, or approx. 3 weeks before giving up and adding a queen.
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2013, 08:59:58 PM »

Be patient!  I have only had one hive "swarm themselves to death".  Just when you think all hope is lost, boom....the orientation flights begin!  I would check again in 10-14 days.  I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry.  Your self-raised Florida queen will outperform any purchased queen.  They would likely supersede her, anyways.  Florida bees are a tough stock! 

FWIW...I traveled to New England to help my mother with her first hives that were packages from GA, installed in May.  I swear, her purchased bees were nastier than any of my colonies....all of which have been 'saves' (removals) and swarms.  Give your hive time...it will be worth it!!  If they are indeed queenless after a few weeks, they will be more receptive to a new queen...but she will likely be superseded as soon as they have resources to make their own queen. 

Do you have a second hive?  As a security blanket, you could pull a frame that contains eggs, and add it to the questionable hive.  They will start a new queen if they need to.  (Not larvae...eggs!)  JMO?  Leave them alone for two more weeks.  Again, that is just one opinion...  Good luck!   
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sc-bee
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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2013, 10:48:33 PM »

Here is the queen math:

Queen     Hatch 3½ days  Cap  8 days +-1  Emerge  16 days +-1  Laying     Laying   28 days +-5


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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2013, 10:58:42 PM »

Here is the queen math:

Queen     Hatch 3½ days  Cap  8 days +-1  Emerge  16 days +-1  Laying     Laying   28 days +-5

My queen development math, from laid egg to producing queen goes like this, egg hatch @3.5 days, cap @7-8 days, emerge @16-18 days, sexually mature 18-20 days, mating flights until 32-34 days.  Queen can begin laying after 1st mating flight, laying between mating flights, or wait until up to day 40 before beginning to lay eggs, every queen is different.
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Carol
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2013, 11:17:36 AM »

I'm willing to wait awhile...but there is absolutely no brood left to emerge. They still do orientation flights...tho not large and there are a lot of drones. There had been at least one frame after the first swarm, but didn't check the rest of the frames. So there are some bees that arn't too old...

Here are a couple of the frames...





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sc-bee
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2013, 11:33:26 AM »

Can you spare a frame of brood from another hive?
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Carol
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2013, 12:15:51 PM »

This is my only hive. I'd like to find someone in the area (Central FL) that raises small cell bees or natural cell bees  that I could purchase some frames of brood from...and possibly a Queen if I don't have one.

I'm not sure how many problems I would create if I purchased brood of large cell bees and put them in.

Right now I am just checking out small cell/ natural cell  bee breeders in case  I need to buy a Queen.

I posted several more pictures on my blog  www.wildlifearoundus.blogspot.com   
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sc-bee
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2013, 01:22:58 PM »

What you have circled in red on your blog is not a queen cell. It is a cup or anticipation cup. What gives it away is the rounded mouth of the cell and it is not extended. Bees build them and move and tear them down at will. Some breeds of bees keep more than others and keep them ready in case they want to use them. It does not become a queen cell until it is laid in.
Another photo, the last one, shows what looks like it may be the remains of an old hatched cell that may be partially torn down. Hard to tell.

You do know you had a swarm is this correct? Did you see the swarm or are you basing it on what you see as hatched queen cells? Not trying to be rude in any way just trying to ask the right questions to help. How old is the black comb you have?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 01:41:35 PM by sc-bee » Logged

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Carol
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2013, 01:47:02 PM »

I saw both swarms...the first left in the afternoon and returned....it was clouding over and ready to storm...before I could get suited in the morning they swarmed and landed in a 60' tree top....stayed a day and left.....3 days later they swarmed again...stayed 3 days and left...neither wanted the extra hive.

We had been gone for 5 or 6 wks and they had a deep and a medium for brood...the medium was full of honey....the 2 other medium supers were empty.. must have been back filling brood nest.

This is a package of natural cell bees installed in March. Mostly their comb.  I did get a couple combs from Sam Comfort when I bought the bees. Don't know how old they are.
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Carol
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2013, 02:45:12 PM »

do these look like Queen Cells?  I've zoomed in and cropped it pretty close so kind of fuzzy....


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sc-bee
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2013, 08:05:23 PM »

Yes those are queen cells. And of course you saw the swarms that makes all the difference in the world. So hopefully a queen not yet laying, it is still too early to tell.
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Carol
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2013, 08:32:43 PM »

Good to hear....didn't really want to do a check this soon but had seen a white larva aprox 3/4 in long with dark head on it's way into the hive last week.  Worried that they were not strong enough to keep the wax moths out...but no sign of them on comb.
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